Civil asset-forfeiture law.

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Some points about "guilty until proven innocent in a court of law". I dont think that the person doing the considering is ever mentioned which leads to the conclusion that either nobody is doing the considering or everybody is doing the condidering. I think that they mean that EVERYbody should consider everybody else innocent until guilt is proven in a court of Law. Also last I heard, LEOS dont judge. They gather facts called evidence and present it to a third party called a jury who then decides weather that evidence is enough to deprive the accused of some of his rights.

You are correct in stating that the state may not deprive a person of property without due process of law. That is exactly what we are bitching about; the process or lack there of depending on your point of view. The process as it stands today, is that if you are suspected, not convicted of drug involvement the cops can seize your property. Lets look at this. Is there a "process" in this. Sure the cops think your guilty and they take your stuff. Crappy as it may sound, technically it is a process. What about that old piece of crap about being innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Was there a court of law involved before said person was found guilty and deprived of some of his rights??? Not by any civilian definition.

No matter how I look at this I cant come up with how it is just, legal and Constitutional. If we break this down we get.
1. Cop thinks I'm guilty therefore I am. No jury required.

2. PD deprives me of my property before a trial, before charges are filed...

3. I'm found innocent and must fight to get my stuff back because some greedy a$$hole wants a bigger budget.

4. No charges are filed and I must fight to get my stuff back because some greedy a$$hole wants a bigger budget.

Give me a break. As far as I am concerned if you take anything belonging to me and I am later found not guilty or you decide that no charges can be pressed you need to give me back my stuff in the EXACT condition you took it the very same instant that I leave. NO ifs and or buts.
 
Hmm.

Why do I get the sudden feeling that not a whole bunch of people have read:

The Federal Statutes on Asset Forfeiture.

Their State Statutes on Asset Forfeiture.

Case Law on Asset Forfeiture.

LawDog
 
The police presume the guy is guilty and build a case against him?????
How is this different from investigating the crime and looking at all the facts and then assigning guilt??

Answer: It is easier!!

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Better days to be,

Ed
 
Keiller, you hit the nail on the head. Too bad most people relatively new to the subject don't make the connection like you did. It's outrageous and absurd, but it has the Supreme Court's seal of approval. LE Agencies and District Attorneys' offices have become basically profit-making centers by oppressing the druggies and their acquaintances, with the goals of aggrandizing themselves, buying new toys, and re-electing the DA/seeking re-appointment as police chief. Course they tell the rank and file it "for the war on drugs" - kind of like "for the children".

[This message has been edited by Futo Inu (edited February 24, 2000).]
 
LawDog, youre right that I have never read the actual statutes. My comments are based on the news reports I have read. I believe that your statement applies to both us and a number of local PD's doing the seizing. I specifically mentioned the LA sherriffs dept, because they made national news by the outrage they caused. What I do know is that the way it is being enforced by some is dead wrong. This to me means the law is either vaguely writtten as they all tend to be now days, or that some people are blatantly violating it. What ever it is it is unjust, immoral and Unconstitutional. Seems to me that there should be some changes made. The first needs to be PROVE that I am a drug dealer/user... BEFORE you confiscate my stuff. If you cant do this then leave me the hell alone until you have enough evidence to get an arrest warrant. If for some reason there exists some circumstance that leads to an arrest and confiscation, but I am found not guilty by a jury of my peers, then give me my stuff back in the EXACT condition you found it at the EXACT moment I leave the court room or show up at the impound yard. Dont make me have to take the city to civil court and have to pay for a lawyer... If you arrest me and confiscate my stuff on a mistaken charge, apologize as any professional would, let me go immediately and give me my stuff back ASAFP. Dont make me go to court to get my stuff back when you know you are wrong...

These are the things that we have problems with. I dont have a problem at all with the city, county, state... selling the property of a CONVICTED (by a jury) drug dealer and using the profits to bolster PD budget, pay for rehab clinics...
 
I think the major problem here is the fact that the current laws treat the property as if it were seperate person to be found guilty or innocent independantly of the person actually accused of the crime. EG: If you look at court records you will see cases like State of IL vs three cases of wine and State of CA vs 1996 Mercedes SL500. What is happening is the courts are treating the material like it was a person and holding it up for trial. And here's the real kicker, the standard of evidence for a criminal trial is beyond a reasonable doubt, but forfeiture is a civil proceeding and so the standard is preponderance of evidence, a lessor standard. Therefore, a person's stuff is easily found guilty(and therefore forefeit) whereas the person standing criminal trial is found innocent. Here in IL in the past, the ASA(assist states attorney) has declined to press charges against a criminal, they just went after his stuff. That's BS, another cop-out for the DA(SA)to do look like they are doing something without really doing anything. And it pays their bills. Sounds like conflict of interest to me. Semper Fi
 
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