Cigarettes kill...when travelling 1500fps!

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ammoeater

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Copied from the Atlantic City Press 2/13/01



Woodbine man dead from joke shooting
- February 13, 2001 - 8:18 AM

Police say a practical joke turned deadly when a Cape May County man shot his friend with a muzzleloader rifle loaded with cigarette butts.

By MICHAEL MILLER
Staff Writer, (609) 463-6712

WOODBINE - Anthony "Smokey" Saduk Jr. was only joking with friends at a party early Sunday morning when he loaded an antique-replica muzzleloader rifle with cigarette butts and shot his roommate in the chest.

But police said the practical joke turned deadly.

Wesley Geisinger, 31, was killed when three cigarette butts penetrated his rib cage directly above his heart, Cape May County Medical Examiner Elliot M. Gross concluded after performing an autopsy Monday.

Saduk, the 29-year-old son of Woodbine City Council President Anthony Saduk, was jailed on charges of aggravated manslaughter.

State Police Detective Sgt. Charles Brennan said Saduk loaded a .50-caliber black-powder rifle with cigarette butts and paper-towel wadding during a party at his Freemont Avenue home.

Sitting on a bar stool, Saduk aimed and fired the rifle at Geisinger, who was standing just 7 feet away. But police said the muzzle of the rifle probably was much closer to Geisinger.

Saduk called police immediately after Geisinger was shot. Geisinger, who worked for Saduk as a construction worker, was pronounced dead at the scene from an apparent gunshot wound to the chest, Brennan said.

Earlier that night, Saduk loaded a .44-caliber muzzleloader revolver with gunpowder and shot at Geisinger and another friend, 32-year-old Joseph Johnson of Prospect Park, Pa. The black powder left only superficial marks, investigating Detective William Scull said.

Police also charged Saduk with two counts of aggravated assault for those shootings. He faces as much as 30 years in prison on the manslaughter charge.

Police confiscated both the revolver and the Thompson Hawken muzzleloader rifle used in the shootings.

Saduk and Geisinger were hosting a party Saturday night to break in a new pool table, the centerpiece of a renovated game room in Saduk's home, police said. Several of the dozen people at the party confirmed Saduk's version of the accident, Brennan said.

"I don't want to talk about it," Johnson said when reached at his home Monday.

Gun experts said wadding from a muzzleloader would have an effect similar to that of a blank fired from a prop gun in a movie. But even blanks can be lethal, said Al Kellis, manager of Atlantic Arsenal Discount Firearms in Pleasantville.

"It comes out of there at 1,500 to 1,800 feet per second," Kellis said. "It's a stupid thing to do. Even black powder can penetrate the body."

Geisinger leaves behind an ex-wife, Michelle, and two daughters, Rachel, 4, and Samantha, 5.
 
He must have been reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeal close to that guy when he shot him. Once again, the 4 rules would have saved that man had this idiot known them and practiced them.
 
Put me on this jury!

I would send this man away for as long as possible. Idiots that play with their guns like this are an accident waiting to happen.
 
You just gotta wonder at the stupidity

On the other hand, who'd a thunk that cigarette butts would penetrate anything? Even at 1500 fps?

Not to be morbid, but it would be interesting to see the autopsy results. How much penetration did he get? Any expansion?
 
Just shows the effects of nicotine/tar,etc., on the human brain. We've all seen pics of straw, etc., penetrating brick walls in tornados. The fastest tornados are a little over 300 mph. You don't think those cigarette butts were traveling a lot faster than 300 mph??
 
Let's do a little figuring.

I remember from high school physics that 60 mph = 88 ft/sec.

So, 300 mph = 5 X 88 ft/sec = 440 ft/sec in a tornado.

And, 1,500 ft/sec = 1,022.72 mph from the muzzle.

Good point Walter, it was going over 3X faster than in a tornado. So it shouldn't be a surprise that it penetrated.

Kilgor
 
If "Smokey's" brains were gas and put it in an ant's car it wouldn't make it halfway around a BB. A good blackpowder enema and a few protein shakes from "Bubba" in west bloc should set him straight.

Hope I didn't get too carried away.

Brian
 
Yes, but consider that a straw has a very small frontal area. Given that it's a hollow tube to boot, it doesn't seem unreasonable to think it could be thrust through a board. A cigarette butt on the other hand is a little different. I'm not up to snuff on sectional density and all the other physics that go along with ballistics, but it does seem that it would take a lot of force for a cig butt to penetrate anything.

JMHO.
 
Apparently it takes shooting them out of a muzzle loader.

How stupid can people get, shooting at each other for fun? No mention of drinking but I bet there was alcohol in this equation.
 
this made me think of what i use for pest and insect control, i load the ol crosman with a broken match stick pump 10 times and i have got an effective mouse killer that doesnt bounce off tile floors and crack glass. For a rather large insect like a spider or beetle i load the crosman with some frog food pellets and that is very effectice, yes i could just step on them but it is much more fun to do it my way. I wouldnt do this but the bb gun is a very cheap one and is nolonger accurate it also doesnt hold air pressure for longer than 1 minute so instead of tossing it i thought up another use.

And as for that guy shooting someone with cigarette butts that is one of the dumbest things any sane person could possibly do. he should of at least used toilet paper or a wad of kleenex. Not that that makes it any better he should of never done it in the first place "NEVER POINT THE MUZZLE AT ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY"
 
Any of you Vets here remember the old "air gun" or whatever it was called that the armed forces used in the early 60's for medical injections, instead of a hypodermic needle? I bet that medicine was going less than 1500 fps, and it doggone sure was injected, but of course it was placed directly on your arm. I wonder in this age of communicable diseases if they still use these guns?
 
I recall watching a documentary on the discovery channel about training federal agents for bomb defusal, bomb scene evidence gathering and so forth.

Part of this involved placing a pipe bomb inside a cardboard box on the front seat of an early 80's model car (ie large, heavy, metal vehicle as opposed to the plastic vehicles of today). The force of the explosion was sufficient enough to force a large coin sized piece of cardboard through the steel door to the point where the majority of the cardboard was jutting out on the other side of the door.
 
It was the powder

I bet the fool loaded it with 50+ grains of powder. All the energy has to go somewhere and into the poor chaps chest was where it went.

It might be blunt force trauma but 50 grains of anything moving at 2500 ft/sec (average, det vel of BP is about 6k ft/sec) will hurt. A lot.

Another Jon Eric Hexum.
 
:rolleyes: Just how F'ing stupid can people get, I don't know who was dumber, the idiot getting trigger time or the idiots that tolerated earlier and didn't leave and/or kill idiot #1 for pointing a gun at them. Wish our man on the scene Darwin could have gotten the whole bunch.

To South, the military gave up the injection guns only a year ago, not for hygiene since thre is less risk than with needles, but because to many people were experiencing muscle damage by failing to follow instructions and tensing their arm.

For any HCI lurkers, what do we do now master? Should we ban non-gun, muzzle loading assualt weapons? After all you can buy those Hawken kits mail order with GASP! no paperwork! Or do we ban cigarette butts? Or maybe we should just legislate HCI out of business by passing a law banning people with "high capacity" mouths and small caliber brains from committing random and senseless acts of public opinion.
 
And people on the shotgun forum had previously doubted that, at HD ranges, breathmints would not cause death.

Kharn
 
Point of order.

Actor turned organ donor Jon-Erik Hexum removed only his own defective genes from the pool. He was a true Darwin nominee and an even better organ donor. Six people benefitted fron his eyes, heart, kidneys, and skin.

Seems like the wrong genes were removed from the pool this time.

Tom
 
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