chronograph a .270 130 grain Remington?

[Pathfinder45]

These days, it seems almost everybody and their dog has a chronograph. Back in the days before such technology reached the common man, we just took it on faith that the ammo charts in the catalogs were at lest close to their claims. We couldn't really know and neither could the deer. Still, we believed we could make better ammo, and cheaper, right at home. And we sure did, still not knowing what our actual velocities were.

 

[stagpanther]

It's just a tool, but a very useful one for me. Does it guarantee "the best load?" Nope, but it sure assists in the search. Between it, quickload and manufacturer's published data it's another way to cross-check results--especially useful when wandering off into wildcats for which little to no published data may exist.

 

[stagpanther]

Thanks, stag .... helps me appreciate how much better handloads can be than lowest bidder stuff ....
__________________
TheGolden Rule of Tool Use: "If you don't know what you are doing, DON'T."

I was waiting to see if anyone noticed time between shots and said something like "now wait a sec, does that uneven time between shots affect barrel conditions such that it could be a factor in the consistencies?"

 

[emcon5]

Wow, were they from the same box/lot? ES and SD are horrible.

 

[jimbob86]

I was waiting to see if anyone noticed time between shots and said something like "now wait a sec, does that uneven time between shots affect barrel conditions such that it could be a factor in the consistencies?"

The minute or so between shots for 8 rounds should not make a huge difference ..... now if you cranked off a dozen on a cold day in a mad minute and then left one in the chamber for a minute, I'd expect a higher velocity from the higher powder temp ....

 

[jersey joe]

Thank you all especially stag for posting stats that confirmed my initial suspicion.

 

[stagpanther]

Wow, were they from the same box/lot? ES and SD are horrible.

Yes--same box.

The minute or so between shots for 8 rounds should not make a huge difference ..... now if you cranked off a dozen on a cold day in a mad minute and then left one in the chamber for a minute, I'd expect a higher velocity from the higher powder temp ....

My reasoning as well.

Thank you all especially stag for posting stats that confirmed my initial suspicion.

Glad to be of service.

I also may have had the "luck of the draw" for getting a bad batch--I have a stunning knack for purchasing defects in my firearms adventures. LOL Last year I bought a box of 45-70 federal stuff from a local GS--had trouble getting the cartridges to chamber; came to find out they were literally bent. Local GS said no way refund once ammo went out the door.

 

[jimbob86]

Last year I bought a box of 45-70 federal stuff from a local GS--had trouble getting the cartridges to chamber; came to find out they were literally bent.

Bought some "Ultramax" 9mm "remanufactured" ammo at a range for an IDPA shoot once - bullet runout was so bad 1 in 3 would not chamber .....

 

[Catman42]

when we cryo treated my sons 270 he got 100 ft. persecond faster out of the barrel. the shorter the bullet the faster it will go and the more accurate it will be. commercial barrels never have the perfect twist for longer bullets as a custom barrel would. for my sons 270 i loaded 90 grain 270 bullets for 3100 ft per second and it was very very accurate. same with a neighbors 25/06. a 90 grain bullet. if you want a one hole gun get a custom barrel made for the bullet you want to shoot. cryo your barrel it will go faster for the slickness that comes from it.

 

[Pathfinder45]

Well, we know what we know, and often-times what we think we know is based upon the limitations of our own experience. The standard rifling twist rate for the 270 Winchester is one turn in ten inches and the caliber was originally intended for 130 grain bullets.
My current 270 shoots most everything into about 1-1/2 inches for 5 shots at 100 yards, maybe 1-1/4" at best. At 300 yards all of the most promising hundred-yard recipes have destabilized into 10" or 12" or 16" groups. Why don't I get rid of it?
Well, one of those unremarkable 1-1/2" hundred yard recipes does something funny at 300 yards.... 5 shots into 2-3/8" to 2-1/2".... I'm not entirely sure why this one load shoots sub-minute of angle at 300 when it won't at 100, but I'm happy with it.
The bullet is 150 grain Nosler Partition driven by enough Norma N-205 powder to hover right around 3,000 fps. This powder is long discontinued, what, 40 odd years ago? One of my goals is to work up an otherwise identical load using Norma MRP to see if I can duplicate the performance that I get with N-205, since I have a limited supply of it.
I've shot this over a chronograph against another fellows 7mm Remington Magnum and it left me wondering why one would sacrifice magazine capacity for a 7mm magnum that can easily be matched by a hand-loaded 270 or 30-'06. Of course, you could handload that 7mm magnum too, and finally get what you paid for.

 

[stagpanther]

and often-times what we think we know is based upon the limitations of our own experience.

ain't that the truth. : ) I know some of the best shooters and ballisticians assert that bullets can stabilize gyrations the further out they go; my limited experience is such that I've never been able to wrap my mind around that concept. That said--I have seen instances of the 150 gr bullets performing better out of my 270 at longer distances than faster 130's.

 

[jimbob86]

That said--I have seen instances of the 150 gr bullets performing better out of my 270 at longer distances than faster 130's.

My rifle shoots 150's better than 130's ..... could be that the throat is worn and the longer bullets have less of a jump to the rifling ..... the groups are beginning to open up, 1 1/4" at 100 now ..... a new barrel is probably in the future....

 

[Wyosmith]

I have owned 1 or more 270 Winchesters since 1968. I started loading for the 270 in the same year, and it was my first rifle and my first time reloading. Since then I have owned 8 different 270 Winchester rifles and one of them, my 2nd one, is now on it's 3rd barrel.
In my life I think I have fired about 100 rounds of factory ammo in my own 270s. ALL the rest have been with my own loads.
My 3 rifles that I still have in this caliber are a Mauser that I have had since I was 14 years old (on it's 3rd barrel) Which is the first rifle I ever made that was not a muzzleloader. Another Mauser that I made for myself about 18 years ago in classic style, and a Winchester M95 lever action I got about 20 years ago.

My early rifle shoots 130 grain bullets better then it does 150s so that what I use in it. I load 130 grain Nosler Partitions and also 130 grain Remington Core-Lokts in this rifle and both shoot under 1 MOA and chronograph at 3144 FPS with only a 9 FPS deviation. Both shoot under MOA, averaging about .600" for 3 shot groups. Sometimes a bit tighter but I can't do much better then .6" on demand with it. .6" is just fine however.

My Classic Mauser is zeroed for 150 grain Nosler partitions which I chronograph at 2988 FPS and the deviation is only 15 FPS. This one is super accurate with 150 grain bullets and shoots so tight I hesitate to say what I get from it, but it shoots way better then it has a right to. Not one time either, but many times I have made 3 shot groups that amazed me and others that saw me do it. But "Sub-MOA" is an understatement. I also use 160 grain Nosler partition with this rifle at times which shoot only about a bullet width wider at 100 yards.

My Winchester M95 is zeroed for a load with 150 grain Remington Round Nose Core-Lokts and I am almost out of these. I have 113 left and Remington in their infinite lack-of-wisdom has chosen to stop the sale of them to hand loaders. But they shoot about 1.5 MOA if all goes well. I am 64 years old and my eyes are not what they once were, but with a buck-horn and a 1/16" brass bead front sight, I think a 1.5 MOA groups most times is outstanding. My load from this gun measured 2912 FPS with the above mentioned Remington Bullet, with a 40 FPS deviation. When I run out of the old Core-Lokts I will change over to the 160 grain Nosler in this gun.

I have zeroed a number of factory rifles for customers with various factory loads in the last 30 years too, and one load that has proven to be exceptionally accurate in several rifles is the Hornady White Tail line. In a Tikka, one Savage and one Winchester rifle I have seen this ammo touch all the bullet at 100 yards. Because I have seen that in several 270 rifles made by different companies, I have to believe the ammo is some of the best available today for the 270 shooter who wants to kill deer or antelope. The ammo I shot was loaded with their 130 grain bullets and having used that bullet myself in the past (hand loaded) I can say it works very well on deer. I would not advise it's use on elk because it's penetration is a bit less that what I like for elk, but for any deer up to about 350 pounds it's just fine.

 

[stagpanther]

Great stuff Wyo. That's some real dedication. I don't think there's a problem with rummie's bullets--it's when they start swinging a hammer to put cartridges together that things go south.BTW I totally concur with your observations about Hornady's American white tail--I've found it to be extraordinarily difficult to duplicate their performance in a handload; all the more amazing when you consider they are "ho hum BC" interlocks. I've put their factory ammo to the test on labradar, and it typically shows stellar consistency and velocities VERY close to what they put on the box. I think Hornady is about the top of the game when it comes to consistency in mass- manufactured ammo.

 

[stagpanther]

More results

This exercise is kinda fun--so I went out again today and put a few more factory 270 rounds downrange of comparable factory ammo. The main difference was that it was much colder and windier today; that may or may not have been a factor.

First up was Winchester's 130 gr extreme point. It delivered far better velocities and SD than the corelokts--but still wandered around a bit on impacts. Still, pretty impressive out of my 22" ruger American.

 

[stagpanther]

Next was Winchester's 150 gr powerpoint. It shot OK but tended to wander around on impact even more than the 130's--though it is more of a spire point than tipped bullet compared to the 130 extreme point. SD was good but velocity fair.

 

[stagpanther]

The big surprise for me was the fed soft point round nose power shoks. That shot faster than the Winchester stuff, and seemed to me to have noticeably less felt recoil to boot. In addition to that, they grouped much better--the one shot that hit the target I actually pulled a bit. Along with the American Whitetail this turned in about the best over-all performance out of my ruger American.

 

[Bart B.]

I know some of the best shooters and ballisticians assert that bullets can stabilize gyrations the further out they go; my limited experience is such that I've never been able to wrap my mind around that concept. That said--I have seen instances of the 150 gr bullets performing better out of my 270 at longer distances than faster 130's.

I doubt bullets are better stabilized the further downrange they go. Their spin rate is fastest as they leave the barrel and it slows down only 10 to 15% across the first 1000 yards of flight.

Test groups often start getting smaller the last 40% of a range band when slower velocity ones leave at higher angles to the LOS than faster ones. This happens when all bullets leave on the muzzle axis upswing near its peak. This situation is often thought to be caused by better bullet stabilization at the greater ranges.

 

[dvdcrr]

Any 270 shooter would do well to read and heed this excellent article. "Know Your Big Game Rifle", Jack O'Connor, Outdoor Life, Nov. 1965. Deer haven't changed, and a yard is still 3 feet, just as it was in 1965.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQIAxAC&usg=AOvVaw22wVSv18w0YCERaj8I5RBp

 

[stagpanther]

Any 270 shooter would do well to read and heed this excellent article. "Know Your Big Game Rifle", Jack O'Connor, Outdoor Life, Nov. 1965. Deer haven't changed, and a yard is still 3 feet, just as it was in 1965.

Shooting today isn't as "manly" as it was back then.