Chinese training Mexican army to disrupt US border?

Faraway,

It matters not what are the good intentions of many border-crossers, and exactly how many have good vs bad intentions. Even many of those arriving here with paper from corrupt third world countries can not be taken for granted because their very government that issues those papers are not reliable. There is a direct correlation between terrorists, organized crime, drug and arms smugglers the latter three being very active on our borders in many forms. So it is quite logical and probable that it is an easy avenue for terrorists. It boils down to the security of our State vs allowing it to remain a big prison yard where we "have to be controlled in order to protect us" from those who should not be here. There are other issues too, like health. Diseases like tuberculosis are very common in Mexico and other countries south of our border. We definately do not want an influx of this kind of thing in addition to the other wonderful things.

The agenda for a Pan-America state is a reality. It has been planned for a long time, and is being driven on the model of the EU. The [European] Common Market, later renamed the European Economic Community, then the European Union was fronted in the 1960s as an alliance purely for "trade" among member european countries. It was then transformed one incremental step at a time into a political state where the sovereignty of it's members has been effectively disolved. Romano Prodi, former Italian Prime Minister now European Commission president, some time ago commenting on the haggling in euro-politics over political unity, openly expressed this in a press released statement. He asked (in effect) "Why are you [some member state heads] acting so shy? The European Union was planned from the start with this intention. So why are you all trying to hide this?".

We are being driven to the same end, and our national security - not to mention sovereinty - is at stake. Economic unity will be followed by political unity one step at a time, as sure as night follows day. The same "explanations" and excuses for economic unity for "trade only" were used to sell the EEC to the populace of Europe, and we are being sold the same stinking package now slowly but surely.
 
Croyance,

I don't. Their intentions I have already stated; more controls on us, the continued growth and power of the current Federal government, and a new Pan-American state.
 
Wasn't any contention about the correlation between the drug smugglers, terrorists and the like. However, that doesn't necessarily condemn immigrants (legal or otherwise) to be a deliberate part of that condition.
As far as papers being issued by corrupt governments, the point being exactly what?. Within the US, it isn't exactly hard to get spurious papers via alternative means, some with local government complicity. And there are quite an increasing number of people, immigrants and otherwise-who are chosing, as much as possible, to stay off the official lists. So within this country, that type of documentation is under siege. And as likely as not recent guv'ment attempts for national ID's, have as much to do with internal conditions as external ones.
And the terrorist and smugglers link, if you are referring to specifically Latin American organizations, some of that crowd was funded (or had arisen as a result of) US policies. Some of the consequences of the plots cooked up, by North and Company, during the Reagan years, are still filtering out, and will for some time.
And if the US develops draconian policies in these matters, we won't need to go looking as far afield as the Middle East for terrorists, we'll have our very own home grown ones.
Concerning the EU, it's inevietable. These countries may retain their cultural identity, and governments, but are starting to develop a substantial economic edge. And in order to compete, whether the US, Canada, and Mexico, do so officially, or by otherwise, a similar situation will develop. Essentially, corporate economic interest, will dictate it will occur- however much we might want otherwise. GM, Microsoft and Exxon will ensure that it does-simply because Daimler-Benz, IGF, and Co. already have done so.
In the sense of the developing economic blocs (the EU, Canada/US/Mexico/Brazil, Japan, and whatever China cooks up) and corporate interests, economically isolated sovereign policies, are a dead letter.
Concerning diseases, yes a problem. However these things can be brought in, as well, by legitimate travel.
Mobility in the modern sense, does present some substantial issues for disease transmission. TB, has resurfaced substantially in Mexico and Russia, largely as a correlary to economic problems. But, guess what...it has done so independent of immigration within the US. TB has risen on the reservations, and these are places which have virtually no incoming populations.
 
Faraway,

The level of corruption in the Mexican, many other third world governments and their agencies are well known, has not changed, and is incomparable to ours on the issue of records, data and the issue of documents. In some third world countries at the moment there is not even an official passport agency, and private vendors are "making" and selling them. While people coming from these states directly to the U.S. are probably going to get turned away at the ports, they can bribe consular officials from other third world countries - like Mexico - and establish a "legitimate" new identity.

We already have a national ID called the drivers license (or the state ID) with the social security number. Without which it is very difficult to do very much. There may be some U.S. citizens who want to minimize their presence on paper - but most of them (with some exceptions) will at least have a record of birth somewhere.

The EU was conceived and planned as a political state - as is the new Pan-America. The individual countries in europe are hardly retaining their cultures as the national boundaries are meaning less and less. Their resulting "edge" has simply been the lowering of their average standard of living gradually over a 40 year period with an enlargement of the welfare states that subsidize the working and non-working poor. Sure the big multi-nationals are making a killing as they more their factories to cheap labor bases like Romania, Hungary etc, and there is the corresponding increased markets for mass consumables. The new state of Europa has the advantage of being able to transport goods around among it's members states via an extensive rail network. But it hasn't done much for the average wage and standard of living for people in countries like the U.K., Germany, France etc. The trojan horse for this has been "trade" - and the acceptence of this as "inevitable" simply concedes that it is multi-national corporate interests that control our own government. No surprizes to some people; but you can not say that a government that is complicit in such a process is either loyal to or protecting the sovereign interests of the country and it's citizens. It is a deliberate sell out.

TB is usually associated with poverty, and while travel does tend to spread it around, it is generally not the poor that have engaged in conventional global travel. But mass cross border migration - illegal or not - of the poor from third world countries like Mexico is going to bring in things like this in large number. We do not want or need to bear the cost for this at all.
 
Faraway, Que?, Los hombre es no aqui es meurto...Yo lo siento. Esta manana, los loco, mucho peligroso, desparados con Mexico y China, entrada Norte Montana. Norte Montana y Norte Dakoda es nuevo estados en los Republica Mexico. Viva la Revolucion!!! Recuardo Septembre 16th, y Cinco de Mayo, y 4th July-las dias de libertade, por los oppressed hermanos en la Norte!!!
 
Lak, Why am I not surprised that you didn’t bother answering my question?

The suggestion that illegal immigrants - insurgents - have the same rights to a trial is lunacy.
Click to expand...
Lunacy or not, it is the situation we are faced with. The fact is that we live in a real world with a real issue that has to be dealt with here in reality. There are a minimum of 10 million illegal aliens in the US, have you even crunched the numbers on this? Removing as many as 1,000 a day would mean it would take about 30 years to get them all. And that is assuming the numbers stay static! Even if you up the removals to 5,000 a year it would still take about 6 years. That is still longer than any one presidential term. I want to hear from you a real solution as to how you think the United States can find, establish illegal alienage, and return, more than 5,000 individuals to their country of citizenship each and every day for the next 5 to 10 years, all the while protecting the rights of Americans (remember, you as an American citizen do not have to prove citizenship, an immigration officer would have to prove you were not). I’m serious with this question. You advanced the idea that little to nothing was being done, so I want to hear your glorious scheme for this issue. Surely you have one…
 
Let's start by stopping the influx. THEN we can talk about what to do with the mess we have inside our borders.

Anything else is pointless.
 
Quartus,

First things first of course. And agreed, the first obvious measure is to shut down the border. The question is why was this not done right away. But 3 years+ later, the idea that we can fight a "war" on terrorism - while an undetermined 10 million plus or minus "unknowns" remain in this country - is absolutely lundicrous. It is total nonsense.

The people that support this "war" need to get something straight. It is either a "war" (to them) and the country is in real and tangible danger - or it is not. It is one or the other. The idea that things are going to go on "business as usual" - while we all sit around waiting for the next big bang, meanwhile being told we need more "controls" on us is not going to fly with me, and most other people I know.

AHenry,

What we are faced with is "inevitable" (they keep telling us so) attacks followed by a police state. I do not know about you - but I am not about to accept that these people have any rights above mine. My money. My liberty. They do not have the "right" to be employed here so that my wages can be depressed, and others can be put out of work. They do not have the "right" to stay here - so that my government is enabled to place restrictions on my liberty.

It is not just my wages and liberty. It is everyone who was born in this country, or entered playing by the rules. And it is as much an abomination to the latter as the others.

It is not what "we are faced with". It is what our government is faced with; they need to decide with which country their loyalty stands and act accordingly.
 
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