I live in a low crime small town neigborhood and keep a loaded model 60 on the nightstand. Filled with plus p lhp. Felt satisfied with that due to low threat. This morning at around 3, some intoxicated skinhead looking nut came to my front door and was trying to gain entry. I heard the commotion and took along the smith while I went to see what is up and then got on the horn to 911. Forgot my glasses! Don't do that! The perp finally gave up but his parting shot was vandalising my house. Busted out the porch light and other stuff. The police arrived and found him nearby after a short chase. Hauled him off. I never got very excited and did not feel unprotected with the smith pointed at the front door. That is the closest I have come to having to shoot, not too close, thankfully. However, before retiring again I thought about it and decided to stoke the model 66 with silvertips and then felt better about it. So am I undergunned with the snub?
Chief's wakup suprise
- Thread starter Tom2
- Start date
Sometimes I feel a bit undergunned when I carry my 5 shot, 2" snub loaded with .38+P.
I think it has to do more with weight - (or lack thereof) of my ultra-lite, but after each range session my "undergunned feeling" disappears (at least for awhile).
I mean I sure as hell would'nt want to be on the recieving end of it - and I cant think of anyone who would say otherwise ....
Then again I am so used to lugging around steel framed 1911's that the ultra-lite snubby almost feels like I am wearing a cellphone on my belt and not a defensive weapon!
I think it has to do more with weight - (or lack thereof) of my ultra-lite, but after each range session my "undergunned feeling" disappears (at least for awhile).
I mean I sure as hell would'nt want to be on the recieving end of it - and I cant think of anyone who would say otherwise ....
Then again I am so used to lugging around steel framed 1911's that the ultra-lite snubby almost feels like I am wearing a cellphone on my belt and not a defensive weapon!
I don't think you're undergunned myself. I normally carry a Kimber Compact but on my motorcycle I keep a S&W 640 as it doesn't take up much room. We were told in CCW class that the average shooting here is under 10', so a snubbie should be ok unless the distance gets too far, in which case you wouldn't likely be shooting anyway.
With all that said the 66 is probably better for home defense.
With all that said the 66 is probably better for home defense.
Tom,
First, I believe you did very well in your “threat encounter”.
Second, I do not feel you are the least under-gunned. As we all know – should, Heaven forbid, it ever come to it – SHOT PLACEMENT is the essential variable; therefore, if you are accurate with your S&W Model 60, you should be well defended.
I would also offer an unproved opinion: I believe that big bore revolvers, full size autoloaders, and pump shotguns can have a real psychological impact on a felon – especially on some moron who is high. I do not doubt for a moment that your Model 60 (loaded with any top-quality JHP) in.38 Special +P or .357 magnum will provide rapid incapacitation, but just looking at (for example) a full-size 1911A1, an N Frame Smith revolver, or a Remington 870 12 gauge is likely to convince the fool to depart the scene at his fastest speed.
First, I believe you did very well in your “threat encounter”.
Second, I do not feel you are the least under-gunned. As we all know – should, Heaven forbid, it ever come to it – SHOT PLACEMENT is the essential variable; therefore, if you are accurate with your S&W Model 60, you should be well defended.
I would also offer an unproved opinion: I believe that big bore revolvers, full size autoloaders, and pump shotguns can have a real psychological impact on a felon – especially on some moron who is high. I do not doubt for a moment that your Model 60 (loaded with any top-quality JHP) in.38 Special +P or .357 magnum will provide rapid incapacitation, but just looking at (for example) a full-size 1911A1, an N Frame Smith revolver, or a Remington 870 12 gauge is likely to convince the fool to depart the scene at his fastest speed.
Might be laziness
It might be laziness that I keep the 60 as a home gun, but admittedly ranges are short in this scenario, and I want something fast to employ, but concealable if needed, and at least acceptably effective. Would maybe be better to have the Sig with night sights standing by in case the lights cannot be used, I suppose. I have installed the larger uncle mikes grips on the chief so that there is a full handhold, with finger grooves. Nicer with hot ammo too. I have a 640 with small grips if I want a CCW rev. I still might like to have a stainless K frame with fixed sights for a house gun, but have been looking for a decent used one and not many showing up at shows around here. I had mulled over loading the 1911 and keeping it out, as I did in the past once, but I like the grab and go aspect of the wheel gun for some reason. If I thought there would be trouble at all, I would definitely have bigger ordnance close and ready. No other problems like this in the past 14 yrs. here. But the 'hood is kinda dragging down a bit due to the very close by college that attracts some undesireables. Thanks
It might be laziness that I keep the 60 as a home gun, but admittedly ranges are short in this scenario, and I want something fast to employ, but concealable if needed, and at least acceptably effective. Would maybe be better to have the Sig with night sights standing by in case the lights cannot be used, I suppose. I have installed the larger uncle mikes grips on the chief so that there is a full handhold, with finger grooves. Nicer with hot ammo too. I have a 640 with small grips if I want a CCW rev. I still might like to have a stainless K frame with fixed sights for a house gun, but have been looking for a decent used one and not many showing up at shows around here. I had mulled over loading the 1911 and keeping it out, as I did in the past once, but I like the grab and go aspect of the wheel gun for some reason. If I thought there would be trouble at all, I would definitely have bigger ordnance close and ready. No other problems like this in the past 14 yrs. here. But the 'hood is kinda dragging down a bit due to the very close by college that attracts some undesireables. Thanks
Attitude
I did find that having the smith gave me a sense of confidence to control the situation, somewhat, more than maybe a can of pepper spray or a golf club. maybe false confidence but I was ready to roll and concerned but not scared. maybe I could deal with a real break in without getting too bent out of shape?
I did find that having the smith gave me a sense of confidence to control the situation, somewhat, more than maybe a can of pepper spray or a golf club. maybe false confidence but I was ready to roll and concerned but not scared. maybe I could deal with a real break in without getting too bent out of shape?
Sir William
New member
I prefer my SxS 12 bore with #4. I carry a BHP in 9MM hi-cap. My night weapon is a S&W M15 4" 38 Special with +Ps. A J frame would be my last choice and I feel it is a poor choice. Capacity, ergonomics and intimidating appearance are all lacking. I feel that a small frame anything is really a substitute for a combat revolver. IOWs, a J frame is a revolver for last ditch use only. The only use I can think of that small frame revolvers meet is for not being seen in CCW. I suggest strongly that you investigate purchasing a shotgun for HD.
Lion In Winter
New member
Undergunned etc?, Go with your gut. if you are uncomfortable, resolve it. Why? Next time you will have the doubt in mind at the beginning. It is not a good thing to be questioning choice of tools before a fight.
N.H. Yankee
New member
Tom2 you are never undergunned if you can accurately hit the target with a first lethal shot from a suffiecient caliber. The only thing that could be of concern is multiple perps, I keep a 9mm H&K on my person usually, 9mm Taurus PT99 bedside, 12ga Mossberg next to the door and my wifes S&W model 19 bedside all loaded in the house at all times. I live in a very rural area with about 10 houses on my road and part time PD which I have called twice before for minor things and was told they were not going to be on duty for 6 hours! We have to call state police with an approx arrival of 45 minutes, so guess what, you are plenty dead between calling 911 and police support. I have had to pull my guns twice in 12 years at my home and I do not pull a gun unless it has reached situation critical. What are you using for bullets as this is very important also, sufficient penetration and expansion are crucial especially in a short barrel gun. I use gold dots in most of my guns and Speer is now making short barrel loads in their gold dot line. The gold dot has proven to be one of the best performers out there, if your 60 is a 357 Speer makes a 135gr short barrel load.
don't shoot it's me
New member
If you felt undergunned at the other side of the door, then you may well have been. I once had a drugged out guy run at my door in our condo complex...he smashed his face on the door, then ran back and took another shot at it...I knew he was out of his head but I still screamed out at him that if the door busted open, he would be shot several times (of course, it was said in a much more colorful NY vernacular)...As I waited with my 4 inch model 66 (and at the time, a very loyal german shepard), I wished I had a shotgun...had I had a snubbie in my hand, I would have wished harder....for a house gun, size ins't really an isuue so I would go with the largest thing you are comfortable with...
I obviously do not think you are undergunned with a 5 shot J frame snub, as my daily carry is a 2.25" Ruger SP101. But that is for concealed carry.
If I was answering a similar commotion at my door at such an hour I would have my Remington 870 Wingmaster ready for action, and probably my SIG P228 with me as well.
Glad to hear you received only property damage from what could have been a nasty situation.
If I was answering a similar commotion at my door at such an hour I would have my Remington 870 Wingmaster ready for action, and probably my SIG P228 with me as well.
Glad to hear you received only property damage from what could have been a nasty situation.
Lion In Winter
New member
To the original poster; you posed the question; received answers; now what have you decided to do?
Capt. Charlie
Moderator Emeritus
Not undergunned, but you might want to reconsider the Silvertips (unless they've been re-designed; don't know about that). Some hollow points have a nasty habit of plugging up from clothing and not expanding. Silvertips are (were) notorious for that. A bank robbery suspect in Columbus, Ohio a few years back was hit multiple times with Silvertips and continued to shoot back. The best known incident involved the infamous Miami FBI shootout, and the FBI did an extensive study on the Silvertips (and others). The results showed the situation worse than even they suspected. Here's a link to a very insightful look at that study. These and other recorded failures were the reason my dept. went from Silvertips to Winchester Ranger.
http://www.thegunzone.com/miami-ammo.html
http://www.thegunzone.com/miami-ammo.html
Looking again for a K frame probably
Well I do have a choice of higher powered guns than the J frames, including a 1957 vintage Wingmaster with the skinny forend. And a slug barrel. It came with a broken firing pin and I have not had it out since I bought it, yet, to test fire. Also got lever guns, M1 carbine, bolt actions, SKS and a 10-22. The silvertips in the revolver are the 140 grain magnums, heavier than the dis-"cussed" 9MM slug and plenty faster. I think they have a good rep in the mag. calibers. But I have the famous red box Federal 125's on the shelf, too. Just that the 66 is sighted in with the Win. loads is all. Living in a pretty safe area perhaps made me feel I needed something at hand for an emergency, but did not expect to need to fight off the huns or something. I guess I will keep out either the 66 or the 9MM Sig which is hicap, night sighted, and has the reputable +P+ loads on hand, I have Fed. and Win. Ranger stuff. Don't know if I want to go cocked and locked with the Colt. If I did live in a rural setting, I would definitely stoke loads in bigger ord. The police are probably never more than a mile or two away from here and don't have alot to do on 3rd shift! BTW the "perp" came by yesterday and offered to pay for the damage, seemed alot more reasonable sober, and thanked me for not shooting him!!!
Well I do have a choice of higher powered guns than the J frames, including a 1957 vintage Wingmaster with the skinny forend. And a slug barrel. It came with a broken firing pin and I have not had it out since I bought it, yet, to test fire. Also got lever guns, M1 carbine, bolt actions, SKS and a 10-22. The silvertips in the revolver are the 140 grain magnums, heavier than the dis-"cussed" 9MM slug and plenty faster. I think they have a good rep in the mag. calibers. But I have the famous red box Federal 125's on the shelf, too. Just that the 66 is sighted in with the Win. loads is all. Living in a pretty safe area perhaps made me feel I needed something at hand for an emergency, but did not expect to need to fight off the huns or something. I guess I will keep out either the 66 or the 9MM Sig which is hicap, night sighted, and has the reputable +P+ loads on hand, I have Fed. and Win. Ranger stuff. Don't know if I want to go cocked and locked with the Colt. If I did live in a rural setting, I would definitely stoke loads in bigger ord. The police are probably never more than a mile or two away from here and don't have alot to do on 3rd shift! BTW the "perp" came by yesterday and offered to pay for the damage, seemed alot more reasonable sober, and thanked me for not shooting him!!!
Chief's Surprise
Hi Tom, Get rid of the Silvertips. While on duty I had to shoot a 50-60 pound pit bull. Two in the chest cavity. It took the fight out of him but not immediately. He looked at me and walked away. One more in the head to finish the job. I didn't want to shoot him at all, but there was no other choice.
After I did some research I had our dept go to the Speer Gold Dot. Most dept's in the area also changed. Too many perps would walk out of the hospital after an extended stay and repair. Not many who recieved the Speer lesson and blessing walked out of the hospital. A very good round in just about all defense calibers.
Hi Tom, Get rid of the Silvertips. While on duty I had to shoot a 50-60 pound pit bull. Two in the chest cavity. It took the fight out of him but not immediately. He looked at me and walked away. One more in the head to finish the job. I didn't want to shoot him at all, but there was no other choice.
After I did some research I had our dept go to the Speer Gold Dot. Most dept's in the area also changed. Too many perps would walk out of the hospital after an extended stay and repair. Not many who recieved the Speer lesson and blessing walked out of the hospital. A very good round in just about all defense calibers.
Which silver tips?
Are we talkin autoloader or revolver loads here? But I would be just as happy to shoot up the sthp's in my Marlin lever and try something else in the Smith.
I have other kinds of ammo in +p 38 as well as magnum cal. Even have some Glasers in 38 and 357. Would really like to use those, but they are too expensive to "test fire" and see how they behave! I still have a strong urge to fall back on the wheelguns instead of the autos and that is why I post on this forum! Still itching for another fixed sight midsize stainless gun to have on hand..
Are we talkin autoloader or revolver loads here? But I would be just as happy to shoot up the sthp's in my Marlin lever and try something else in the Smith.
I have other kinds of ammo in +p 38 as well as magnum cal. Even have some Glasers in 38 and 357. Would really like to use those, but they are too expensive to "test fire" and see how they behave! I still have a strong urge to fall back on the wheelguns instead of the autos and that is why I post on this forum! Still itching for another fixed sight midsize stainless gun to have on hand..
BusGunner007
New member
Based on what I've read here:
20/20 seems to be the most important # ; followed by caliber and capacity.
Prescription night goggles with a suppressed pistol / 20-rd. magazine of .40 cal. might be a nice next step!
20/20 seems to be the most important # ; followed by caliber and capacity. Prescription night goggles with a suppressed pistol / 20-rd. magazine of .40 cal. might be a nice next step!
Re: Chief's Wakeup Surprise
Tom2: IMHO you did EVERYTHING RIGHT! As for your choice of bullets I personally feel you are better off with standard pressure loads in a 2" barrel revolver. The +P's generate more recoil, more muzzle blast, BUT NOT more energy. 
(The new Speer® 135gr +P may be the exception as it was specifically developed for 2" Barrel guns) 
. I load my S&W® Mdl 37 with a horded stash of Federal® Premium 125gr Nyclad HPs. From personal experience I know they are superb felon repellant.
In my 2¼" 357 I shoot Remington® Golden Saber 125gr BJHP; they are highly accurate & low recoil.
DAVID
[x]No guns, [x]No Rights, [x]No Future, [x]No Way
Tom2: IMHO you did EVERYTHING RIGHT!
As for your choice of bullets I personally feel you are better off with standard pressure loads in a 2" barrel revolver. The +P's generate more recoil, more muzzle blast, BUT NOT more energy. (The new Speer® 135gr +P may be the exception as it was specifically developed for 2" Barrel guns) . I load my S&W® Mdl 37 with a horded stash of Federal® Premium 125gr Nyclad HPs. From personal experience I know they are superb felon repellant.In my 2¼" 357 I shoot Remington® Golden Saber 125gr BJHP; they are highly accurate & low recoil.
DAVID
[x]No guns, [x]No Rights, [x]No Future, [x]No Way