cheap hollowpoint target loads?

Materials aside, I was under the impression that the "premium" JHP's undergo far more rigorous QC. That slows the process down, and drives the price up.
WWB JHP's, not so much - which is why they don't cost all that much more.

Also - and I'll admit that I'm no expert in the particulars - there's a fairly wide range of JHP's. Just because you can find a JHP that's only $0.02 more, doesn't mean that the bullets inside the fancy defensive loads would cost the same.

Finally - there's probably a certain amount of basic "supply and demand" mechanics at play. Since people are largely willing to pay what ammo manufactures charge, there's no real incentive to lower the price.
 
BigJimP said:
Practicing with the same ammo as you carry for Defense...the only reason to do that is to make sure the defensive ammo feeds in your gun.../ once you've established that the defensive ammo feeds reliably ...you don't need to shoot 600 rds of it a week for training...
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I agree with this, to clarify this isnt what my original post was about though. I was curious if anyone made JHP loads in the same pricepoint as FMJ target loads and I was curious if premium self defense HP loads were comparable in performance to cheaper JHP target loads.

turns out there are cheap JHP target loads available at or near enough the same price point as FMJ target loads. And the short answer on performance is there is a difference, so I'll continue to stay on the bet my life on the premium ammo wagon. I got what I wanted from this thread so anything more is pure discussion....

The way I see it, if I have the option I dont see any harm in mixing up some cheap hollowpoint loads for practice/training whatever you want to call it. Im thinking it more like qualifying that the pistol can handle hundreds/thousands of various loads vs qualifying 50rds of specific expensive ammo that I might not find again some next ammo shortage or other crisis....
 
OK, I think I understand your point better .../ but since I can reload my practice ammo in 9mm for about $6.50 for a box of 50. I only buy 3 or 4 boxes of the defense ammo that I tested, and for the defense ammo that I like, in that caliber / and since I never retest it. ...no need to replace it unless I change guns for some reason. I check the carry ammo once in awhile to make sure I'm not getting any bullet setback./ but I don't shoot much or hardly any of the defensive ammo.

Whether you choose to get involved in reloading or not ( and to me its part of the hobby / not just to save some money ) ...the cost of ammo is a factor in how much a lot of shooters can practice. Part of practicing - is you need to make sure the round you choose to carry / will run 100% in your gun -- but after you've done that...its all about keeping the cost down, the best you can, and still have reliable ammo for practice.

I'm in my 60's now...and if I don't shoot at least twice a week...my skills seem to erode pretty quickly - especially in terms of my speed on ( my draw from holster to my 1st shot on target ...on my reloads..and to some extent on my split times between shots). So to me, however you can justify the 3 to 4 boxes per practice session ...a couple times a week...is how to best maintain your skill vs what kind of bullet you shoot ( FMJ, JHP, etc )...is the most important thing to me.

So reloading - finding another source for your ammo - buying in case lots...all of that makes sense to me / but it needs to be good quality ammo ....some of these "reloads" I see selling at the gunshows make me real nervous. An acquaintance bought some cheaper reloads at the last show...and when he's firing them...we're hearing significantly different muzzle reports from his gun on about every 3rd shot...may be a powder issue, crimp issue, etc...so whatever he saved on that deal, was not his best option.

Ammo prices in general...and how it relates to bullet type is interesting...and it seems to vary a lot by caliber as well ..just based on what I was seeing at my local range yesterday.

To your point about material cost not being considered in ammo pricing on retail level, I agree....especially when I look at Montana Gold bullets, which is a premium bullet that I reload in 9mm ( 115 gr JHP are $380 per case / 115 CMJ are $ 380 a case & 115 FMJ are $368 a case ....( case is 4,000 ) ...and that makes sense to me because the FMJ does not have a jacketed base..so it should be a little cheaper...and CMJ is only a little more...and the JHP is only a little more - despite the extra step to form the Hollow Point. And with the cost of the bullet making up probably 60% of the cost of my reloads...it would seem to prove your initial point.
 
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My initial thought was that the high cost of "premium" self defense round was a marketing thing and was wondering if they really weren't worth it. But in reality they are because the other components are higher quality as well but mostly the process is more controlled to produce consistency. Better powder more accurately measured, higher velocities for reliable expansion... I can see now why there is not a high demand for cheap JHP loads
 
And a cast HP is a total waste of lead.
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I'd have to disagree with that. It's still a bullet, after all. You might consider it a total waste of a hollowpoint, but its not that either, if its done just right.

Casting hollowpoints that work is easy, if you stick to soft alloy bullets. Casting the entire bullet from a hard alloy is easy, but then, generally, your hollowpoint is wasted.

Casting the nose section from a softer alloy and the body frm a harder one generally works, but its a time and labor intensive work, and not one done by most casters.
 
My initial thought was that the high cost of "premium" self defense round was a marketing thing and was wondering if they really weren't worth it. But in reality they are because the other components are higher quality as well but mostly the process is more controlled to produce consistency. Better powder more accurately measured, higher velocities for reliable expansion... I can see now why there is not a high demand for cheap JHP loads
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The most important criteria for what makes a "premium" hp bullet "premium" is that it's designed, tested and built to accomplish certain things and will tend to do it more reliably than lesser bullets. The lesser stuff though is still in demand because it can do it's job within the parameters of it's construction.

Years back when the FBI decided that a jhp should penetrate certain barriers (sheet rock or 4 layers of denim or auto glass) and still be able to penetrate 12-16" of 10% ballistic gelatin and expand there was a rush from the ammo manufacturers to build bullets that would do just that. They did that, which is why most good jhp bullets in a variety of calibers will do that as reliably as they can be expected to. A jhp bullet that can do that will cost a bit more than a jhp that can only penetrate in straight gelatin without barriers.

To repeat myself, a jhp bullet that can penetrate one layer of drywall, several layers of winter clothing, penetrate 12-16" in a person, expand and not separate the bonded jacket from the lead core (and thus retaining it's weight), a bullet that will do that is built differently than a bullet that will not reliably do the same thing but will penetrate light summer clothing. One will be more expensive than the other.

The same is true for quality commercial expanding hunting ammo for handguns. Hunting ammo is not built to the same criteria as self defense ammo.

http://www.midwayusa.com/find?sortby=1&itemsperpage=24&newcategorydimensionid=15422

tipoc
 
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What's the benefit of hollow points for target and range use?
Most targets don't care; a hole is a hole.
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I prefer HPs for target practice because IMHO, they are less likely to ricochet or deflect from reactive targets like swinging bowling pins and steel gongs and the stands that support them. They are also more likely to expand/fragment and lose energy if and when one shoots low and hits the dirt in front of the target. The difference may be miniscule, but to me, safer is better. It helps like 'ell to reload..........
 
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