Bill DeShivs
New member
.44 Special ammunition doesn't lead badly.
+P lead .38 special does. It's all about velocity.
+P lead .38 special does. It's all about velocity.
Charter Arms Bulldog
- Thread starter ThomasT
- Start date
If you are getting lead in your barrel you are doing wrong somewhere. I shoot lead 158gr cast bullets to over 1150fps from my 357 revolvers and don't get any lead buildup. Don't confuse frosting with leading.
The secret is bullet lube and bullet fit. If the chamber mouths are the same size or smaller than the bore you will get leading. If the chamber mouths are just a little bigger than the bore you shouldn't get leading. And the bullets need to be sized as big or slightly bigger than the chamber mouths.
That was one of the things Ross Seyfried wrote about so much and liked so much about the older S&W guns was the perfect fit between cylinder mouths and bores.
The secret is bullet lube and bullet fit. If the chamber mouths are the same size or smaller than the bore you will get leading. If the chamber mouths are just a little bigger than the bore you shouldn't get leading. And the bullets need to be sized as big or slightly bigger than the chamber mouths.
That was one of the things Ross Seyfried wrote about so much and liked so much about the older S&W guns was the perfect fit between cylinder mouths and bores.
I remember hearing the connection between the Sky Marshalls and the .44 Bulldog also. It probably came from reading magazines. I also seem to remember someone on one of the forums having first hand info about this, but I hate to guess when I can't remember exactly what was said.
I really enjoy my old 3" Bulldog. I finally got it back from Charter Arms after they replaced the Stratford barrel with a Shelton barrel. It went from shooting 3 1/2" left at 20 yards to only 1 1/2" left at 20 yards; with 15 yards 1" left and everything closer hitting center of target. Both barrels seem to like my 215 gr wc, as they hit right in the center of the target elevation wise.
They also did a nice job of putting a high polish on the barrel and frame before re-blueing. He also removed an old dime sized rust stain that had been steel wooled by a previous owner, on the cylinder. There isn't even a hint of that old purple hue you see on many of the old frames. It really has a nice look to it.
My first trip to the range with the new barrel also had a nice double action target. 10 rounds inside of 3 1/2" at 6 and 10 yards. To pull my 15 yard shots closer to center, I am going to change the Pach Compacs to the thinner Charter Arms rubber grips. In the past, that stopped my pulling da shots to the right.
The 19 or 20 ounce 3" makes for comfortable all day holster carry. Stargater53 was unimpressed by the Ruger .44 conversion, but just before buying the Bulldog, i agonized over an older Interarms Rossi Model 720 5 shot .44 Special. It had the fluted cylinder and adj sights. Weight was probably at 30-31 ounces. The first time I saw it, I was amazed I'd never heard of it. Some quick research showed it was loved by many and had a strong following. Everytime I'd go back to the shop to look at it, the weight for an all day carry made me back away. It's probably cause I'm 71 and not 41. In my younger, roaming the farm and woods days, I'd have snatched it up without thinking.
I really enjoy my old 3" Bulldog. I finally got it back from Charter Arms after they replaced the Stratford barrel with a Shelton barrel. It went from shooting 3 1/2" left at 20 yards to only 1 1/2" left at 20 yards; with 15 yards 1" left and everything closer hitting center of target. Both barrels seem to like my 215 gr wc, as they hit right in the center of the target elevation wise.
They also did a nice job of putting a high polish on the barrel and frame before re-blueing. He also removed an old dime sized rust stain that had been steel wooled by a previous owner, on the cylinder. There isn't even a hint of that old purple hue you see on many of the old frames. It really has a nice look to it.
My first trip to the range with the new barrel also had a nice double action target. 10 rounds inside of 3 1/2" at 6 and 10 yards. To pull my 15 yard shots closer to center, I am going to change the Pach Compacs to the thinner Charter Arms rubber grips. In the past, that stopped my pulling da shots to the right.
The 19 or 20 ounce 3" makes for comfortable all day holster carry. Stargater53 was unimpressed by the Ruger .44 conversion, but just before buying the Bulldog, i agonized over an older Interarms Rossi Model 720 5 shot .44 Special. It had the fluted cylinder and adj sights. Weight was probably at 30-31 ounces. The first time I saw it, I was amazed I'd never heard of it. Some quick research showed it was loved by many and had a strong following. Everytime I'd go back to the shop to look at it, the weight for an all day carry made me back away. It's probably cause I'm 71 and not 41. In my younger, roaming the farm and woods days, I'd have snatched it up without thinking.
I carry a Charter Classic Bulldog .44 as my EDC gun. It is loaded with Hornady 180 grain XTP JHP ammo. 1000 ft/sec at 400 ft/lbs energy.
In .38 Special, Federal’s 129 grain HydraShok +P round generates 950 ft/sec and 258 ft/lbs energy.
In a five shot, short barreled revolver, I would expect the bigger, heavier, faster, more powerful round to be more effective.
In .38 Special, Federal’s 129 grain HydraShok +P round generates 950 ft/sec and 258 ft/lbs energy.
In a five shot, short barreled revolver, I would expect the bigger, heavier, faster, more powerful round to be more effective.
Thanks for your post. I have had 3 fixed sight guns that shot left me. Two Taurus model 82s 38 Specials and an original H&R 32 mag revolver that shot about 10" left.
All I did was very slightly widen the rear site notch by filing a little on the right side of the sight groove. Then test fire. File more if needed. Just go slow. Then once you are centered and happy use a little touch up blue where you did your work. It also for me at least gives a better sight picture I can pick up faster.
Thanks for the suggestion.
The older 3" Bulldog went to CA 3x. The first two were for some repairs and to adjust poa/poi. The filed the left side of the front sight twice. I intend to go back and look over the targets I saved as all this adjusting progressed. I don't remember seeing any significant changes, though the light bars were opening up nicely. Any further filling thought, would have started to give too much light and would actually start hurting accuracy. For some reason CA will only file front sights. The will not open the rear and I don't know why. I had to send them a waiver before they would change the barrel. I guess occassionaly things go wrong and they wanted it on my dime since it was not of current production and was from an earlier company. All in all, I'm satisfied with what they have done. I came away with virtually a rebuild, a nice high luster blueing and so far, it hasn't shot itself loose after one box of shells as it had been doing before. I've also been given a set of rubber grips and a set of Classic grips from their used pile.
Now if only it's double action were as smooth as my old pinned K frame model 14.
The older 3" Bulldog went to CA 3x. The first two were for some repairs and to adjust poa/poi. The filed the left side of the front sight twice. I intend to go back and look over the targets I saved as all this adjusting progressed. I don't remember seeing any significant changes, though the light bars were opening up nicely. Any further filling thought, would have started to give too much light and would actually start hurting accuracy. For some reason CA will only file front sights. The will not open the rear and I don't know why. I had to send them a waiver before they would change the barrel. I guess occassionaly things go wrong and they wanted it on my dime since it was not of current production and was from an earlier company. All in all, I'm satisfied with what they have done. I came away with virtually a rebuild, a nice high luster blueing and so far, it hasn't shot itself loose after one box of shells as it had been doing before. I've also been given a set of rubber grips and a set of Classic grips from their used pile.
Now if only it's double action were as smooth as my old pinned K frame model 14.
HighValleyRanch
New member
what distance were you shooting at?
The old barrel was 3 1/2'' left at 20 yards; 2 1/4" left at 15 yards; and 3/4" left at 5 yards.
The new barrel is 1 1/2" left at 20 yards; 1" left at 15 yards; and 0 at 8 yards.
I was thinking of slowly working the left side of the front sight to 0 first at 15 and then maybe 20 yards so long as it holds its 0 at 8 yards.
The new barrel is 1 1/2" left at 20 yards; 1" left at 15 yards; and 0 at 8 yards.
I was thinking of slowly working the left side of the front sight to 0 first at 15 and then maybe 20 yards so long as it holds its 0 at 8 yards.
no disrespect meant, but 3.5"left at 20 yards could be you. please let another experienced shooter bench rest shoot your gun before you start removing metal.
44caliberkid
New member
I was in Federal law enforcement service in 1975 when I bought my 44 Bulldog and never heard about the Sky Marshall thing. I think maybe it was some gun writers saying it would be great for Sky Marshalls with specialized ammunition. I think if it were designed as a Sky Marshall gun it would have come with a bobbed or shielded hammer.
I've been saying this from the start.... this is what Leroy Thompson has spoken of as well.
Cheapshooter
New member
I agree that "made for it" is most likely someone's opinion, overheard and repeated as fact. Someone saying "it works like it was made for it" could easily be misunderstood to mean the MAKER designed it with that specific use in mind.
Had the original phrase been something like "fits the role like a glove", no one would actually think the pistol has 4 fingers and a thumb...such are the pitfalls of English...
This is the understated, and important reason about using low penetrating ammo on a plane. It is NOT about the risk from shooting a hole in the plane. It is about the risk of shooting people behind the bad guy. In an aircraft, people are lined up one behind another from about every possible angle. There is NO cover, to speak of and rows of people in their seats are the most likely "backstop".
People THINK that shooting holes in the plane is the big risk, (there is some risk, from the possibility of hitting a control run or other important mechanism, but this is a very small risk) usually getting the idea that a bullet hole will cause explosive decompression at high altitude.
Oddjob getting sucked out a (really small) window blown out during the fight with James Bond is MOVIE FANTASY. That idea has been repeated and amplified on in some other movies, but it is total fantasy. Even if you blow out an entire window, people will not be "sucked out". Papers and empty plastic cups, yes, a human body? no.
There was one tragic incident of a flight attendant being sucked out of a plane, but not through one of the windows. A 10x12 FOOT section of the cabin roof came off, and they were underneath it when it happened. The plane did not crash, and no one else was sucked out.
The idea of a window being blow out by a bullet and people being sucked out and/or the plane going into uncontrollable dive because of the pressure drop is Hollywood fantasy. Airliners are pressurized, they are not pressure vessels. They leak air like a sieve. They are pressurized by having air constantly pumped in faster than it leaks out, to roughly maintain ground level air pressure, and a small hole (like a bullet hole) may not even make a noticeable difference in cabin air pressure.
Had the original phrase been something like "fits the role like a glove", no one would actually think the pistol has 4 fingers and a thumb...such are the pitfalls of English...
This is the understated, and important reason about using low penetrating ammo on a plane. It is NOT about the risk from shooting a hole in the plane. It is about the risk of shooting people behind the bad guy. In an aircraft, people are lined up one behind another from about every possible angle. There is NO cover, to speak of and rows of people in their seats are the most likely "backstop".
People THINK that shooting holes in the plane is the big risk, (there is some risk, from the possibility of hitting a control run or other important mechanism, but this is a very small risk) usually getting the idea that a bullet hole will cause explosive decompression at high altitude.
Oddjob getting sucked out a (really small) window blown out during the fight with James Bond is MOVIE FANTASY. That idea has been repeated and amplified on in some other movies, but it is total fantasy. Even if you blow out an entire window, people will not be "sucked out". Papers and empty plastic cups, yes, a human body? no.
There was one tragic incident of a flight attendant being sucked out of a plane, but not through one of the windows. A 10x12 FOOT section of the cabin roof came off, and they were underneath it when it happened. The plane did not crash, and no one else was sucked out.
The idea of a window being blow out by a bullet and people being sucked out and/or the plane going into uncontrollable dive because of the pressure drop is Hollywood fantasy. Airliners are pressurized, they are not pressure vessels. They leak air like a sieve. They are pressurized by having air constantly pumped in faster than it leaks out, to roughly maintain ground level air pressure, and a small hole (like a bullet hole) may not even make a noticeable difference in cabin air pressure.
HighValleyRanch
New member
Actually, in 2018 a woman was sucked out the window in a Southwest airline according to the following article:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/apr/17/philadelphia-plane-emergency-southwest-landing-engine-explosion-latest
Other people pulled her back in, but she died from her injuries.
I think aircraft are pressurized to have a 10,000 ft air pressure which is fine since you are not up running around needing extra oxygen. In an article by Tony Lescee he stated the Air Marshals were disbanded because they decided a shoot out was a bad thing and prevention on the ground was a better idea. Didn't work for 911 did it?
Charter Arms replaced the barrel that was shooting 3 1/2 " left at 20 yards. They wouldn't replace a barrel for no reason. They tried filing the front sight twice, which wasn't helping much, other than putting alot of light into the sight picture.
The new Charter Arms barrel is much closer at only 1 1/2" left at 20 yards off a bench, with a rest, using single action and light target loads, outdoors, with no wind, at a range with protection barriers on the left and right side of the range to cut down on any wind if there were any. If this were double action, I would agree it could be me as it is easy to pull shots right. But with a firm rest and shooting sa with a good sight picture and consistent groups, I don't think it was me.
458winshooter
New member
Bulldog for Marshalls
I have heard this before but never gave it much thought. I and a few others have stood up for Charter Arms more than once on this forum to the bad-mouthers ,haters and just get a Smith crowd. But as another poster said why don't they use that in advertising? I mean when I was growing up every Jeep commercial reminded us of how it did so much for our military! Seems like it would do the same thing for marketing. I know because of son of Sam it took a beating. I still love mine so say what you will about it, it's my carry gun of choice.
I have heard this before but never gave it much thought. I and a few others have stood up for Charter Arms more than once on this forum to the bad-mouthers ,haters and just get a Smith crowd. But as another poster said why don't they use that in advertising? I mean when I was growing up every Jeep commercial reminded us of how it did so much for our military! Seems like it would do the same thing for marketing. I know because of son of Sam it took a beating. I still love mine so say what you will about it, it's my carry gun of choice.