Charter Arms Bulldog

T

ThomasT

New member
I was watching this documentary last night on David Berkowitz/Son Of Sam and in the story it stated the Charter Arms Bulldog was designed for use by the Sky Marshals in the heyday of skyjacking airliners. I had never heard that before. Any one else heard that the CA Bulldog was an Air Marshals gun?

Here is the documentary and the statement is made at the 54:10 mark on the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=us1G-BLgE6s
 
I think the Glaser safety slug was spawned by the air marshals needs. the combination of the .44 spl Bulldog and the Glaser safety slug just made the most sense at that time.
 
I was around when the original Bulldog was first marketed. In fact my shooting partner and I bought the first two to show up in our town (Tucson, AZ). Our initial shooting experiences would be worth another thread (smile).

I don't remember any talk back then about this gun being designed for Sky Marshals. Now maybe Tucson was too much of a back-water to hear the inside news but I sure don't remember anything about Sky Marshals.

Dave
 
That sounds like a YouTube rumour to me. The muzzle flash from a Bulldog would likely burn the plane. snicker. Boss in the shop I worked in long ago kept his under the counter.
If the thing had been developed for the Air Marshals, both the original and current Charter Arms company's would be shouting that from the roof tops and they are not.
 
That sounds like a YouTube rumour to me. The muzzle flash from a Bulldog would likely burn the plane. snicker. Boss in the shop I worked in long ago kept his under the counter.
Click to expand...

Did you watch the link I posted? Its not some youtube guy talking about the gun but a documentary posted on YT from an old crime show series.

I wasn't in to guns when the CA Bulldog came out. So I never heard or read why it was developed. But I could see it being used in that role with the above mentioned Glaser Safety Slugs or some of the "Bean Bag" loads that were developed for the Sky Marshals.
 
I tried the small rubber grips on my 44 Pug yesterday and I’m putting the original full size rubber grips back on. They really were uncomfortable. I carry it for traveling ccw.
 
I to wanted a Bulldog from the beginning. Before tye whole Son of Sam thing, or Sky Marshal rumors that I also never heard until now.
Finally got one a few years ago. The Stainless DAO model. Surprisingly accurate, it sees mostly range use, but does get some carry use.

No reference to "Sky Marshals" in the Bulldog's history.
https://military.wikia.org/wiki/Charter_Arms_Bulldog

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_Arms_Bulldog

Wouldn't you think they would at least mention that in their history on their own website?
https://charterfirearms.com/pages/about-us


Then there is this
Another somewhat odd aspect of Super Vels was that the shooter didn’t get off scot-free. When fired, Super Vel rounds generated a fireball that was about a foot in diameter. Since Sky Marshals carried snub-nosed, Smith & Wesson .38 Chief's Special, firing more than one or two Super Vel rounds from a gun with a 2” barrel left third degree burns on your gun hand, or both hands if you were shooting T-man style.
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http://www.skymarshalstory.com/2008/07/sky-marshal-bullets-27.html
 
Interesting post Cheapshooter. Like you all I had never heard of the Sky Marshal connection before I watched that old video. And yes you would think Charter would run with the fact their gun was chosen by the Marshals and make a big deal out of it.

I just wanted to see what you guys thought. I like the original 3" barreled gun in 44 they started with. But they want crazy prices for the new versions of that gun now.

Never heard that about the Super Vel either. If the rounds burn your hand it sounds more like a gun problem than a load problem. The Super Vel used bullets that were slightly smaller to help achieve the velocities they reached. That and a larger powder charge. So the burned hands are a puzzle.:confused:
 
eBay is an excellent, although hit and hope, source for obscure information. I've read many vintage Charter Arms ads and articles there, and like others, have zero recollection of any references to Sky Marshalls.
 
smaller as in diameter, or smaller as in lighter weight?
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Yes they were slightly smaller in diameter and of course lighter like 110gr in 38 Special IIRC. The slightly smaller diameter allowed a little higher velocity without spiking the pressure. The English have been doing that same thing with their rifle barrels for a long time claiming lower pressures. The American thought is to have a tight bullet to bore fit on rifles.

I suspect that Marlin was thinking the same thing when they made lever action rifles in 44 Mag with slightly oversized bores. When Marlin made these rifles the SAAMI spec for the 44 mag round was higher than it is today. Marlin couldn't control the pressure factory loads were loaded to but they could help lower the pressure by using a slightly larger bore. The SAAMI mag pressure was on the ragged edge of what the 1894 action could take before it would loosen up.

This worked fine with jacketed bullets but when the Cowboy action shooters came along with lead bullets it didn't work so well. Not unless you loaded a slightly over sized lead bullet to fill the bore. Now the pressures have been lowered and Marlin can make tighter bores.

Super Vel did the same thing by using slightly undersized bullets and got much higher velocities in 38 Special duty guns without wrecking the guns. The cops had a better round and no new guns were needed.

https://www.supervelammunition.com/our-story
 
gun writer Leroy Thompson used to be a big fan of the Bulldog .44 spl back in the 80s. he often mentioned the sky marshal thing. he did not say the Bulldog was manufactured for the sky marshal. but that it was "made" for the sky marshal when loaded with the Glaser safety slugs. the only thing I ever heard of being designed for the air marshals was the Glaser safety slug because of its use on aircraft.
 
Yes, I heard that the Bulldog was designed for air marshals, the idea being that the .44 Special bullet would not penetrate as well as other loads. They apparently used a load that would effectively stop hijackers without punching through them and hitting a bystander. I had one back in the 80s, and it was a nice little gun, but when it got hot, it tended to bind. Like the Ruger Security-Six, it had a modular construction, and all those interlocking parts would expand and unburned powder would cause it to just stop working. Once cleaned, the guns world work fine, but I got rid of it.

The Son of Sam used one in his murders and it gained quite a bit of notoriety. The gun was wonderfully concealable and was hard-hitting. Is it back in production?
 
The Bulldog was not designed for the Sky Marshalls. It was designed to be a concealable, big bore revolver.

The Super Vel. 38 Specials did not burn your hands when shooting from a 2 " .38- or any other gun. That is a ridiculous statement.
 
Charter never got credit for saving the .44 special cartridge from obscurity. Charter sold a ton of Bulldogs. At first it was hard to find .44 special cartridges but when the Bulldogs became plentyfull the cartridges were easy to find. I remember.
 
Charter Arms may have rescued the .44 Special from obscurity, but its Bulldog made the gun a highly concealable, large caliber package that was highly desired for off-duty cops and for homeowners. The large gaping hole in the barrel also was a good psychological deterrent.

That said, when the folks at COMBAT HANDGUNS converted a Ruger Speed-Six from a .357 to a .44 Special, I felt it was more an act of a mutilation then anything else. I mean, why would anyone want to take a 6-shot flat-shooting powerhouse and turn it into a 5-shot .44 that had the trajectory of a bowling ball? I couldn't understand it. Since then, I've mellowed out somewhat, and I can see why someone might want to do this; however, if I had to choose one for defense, I'd still choose the .357. Even if limited to the use of .38 +P, I'd still rather have the extra shot. And if I could use the .357, I'd have more faith in stopping someone with that caliber then the .44 Special.


Ruger Speed-Six...6-shot .357 or 5-shot .44
Special. Which would you choose?

The .44 still is a powerhouse, and it doesn't suffer from over-penetration; and there's s still the psychological angle. A big hole looks intimidating.

I doubt I'd ever have a use for the .44 Special, and don't know how great the cartridge being rescued from obscurity really was. Like the .41 Magnum, I think the world would continue spinning just fine if it vanished from the earth entirely. Like that Ruger Speed-Six, would there be any advantage to having it in a .44 Special in today's world? The .38 Special has excellent stopping power and the .357 has astronomical stopping power. And there's the fact that it holds one less round. Finally, there's the issue of cleaning. Most .44 Special loads are lead hollowpoints. Shoot a box of those and there will be enough lead in your barrel to make cleaning a real chore (just like the. .38 Special +P FBI load).

Having a .44 Special is nice for those who want it. But there are probably better choices.
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