Charles Daly vs Kimber..what am I exactly paying $500 more for?

CD also has lifetime warranty if purchased after 9/01/2001, this is directly from KBI the manufacturer/importer.

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Quote
Mr. Linn,
Any firearm purchased September 1, 2001 or after does have a lifetime warranty. There are still some firearms that does have the old warranty cards still with them. We strongly recommend that if you purchased your firearm after September 1 to send in your warranty card & to keep a copy of your proof of purchase.

Best Regards,
Michelle
K.B.I., Inc
Service Department

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Kimber only has a 1 year warranty.

I wouldn't buy a Chevy with a 1 year warranty.

Will probably never utilize the warranty, but its "We stand behind our products" comfort.

I was very impressed with the Empire EFS I just purchased. Go to a gun store/gun show and check out the differences for yourself. Then buy a CD and a RCBS Pro2000 progressive press or just buy the Kimber :)
 
NapAttack,

I've seen just as many, if not more, complaints about Kimbers on this board and others as CDs.
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There's another possible explanation for that:

If someone shells out $600-$800 bucks for a gun, they are going to post here and complain about any flaw, any imperfection no matter how insignificant.

If someone buys a $350 gun that half his buddies told him wasn't going to be all that great from the jump off, is he going to say anything about it here?

If you think the only difference between the guns is the name and the price tag, then nothing I or anyone else can say is going to convince you otherwise.

The metallurgy on the CD's ain't all that great. I've seen a lot of peening, broken extractors and ejectors, cracked slide stops. You don't see IPSC or IDPA guns built on CD platforms for a reason. These guys don't give a tinker's damn about the name on the gun, all they care about is that the gun don't break, where the bullets go, and who gets the trophy at the end of the match. I'd build a limited gun on a Norinco frame before a CD.
 
I have a new Charles Daly. The biggest difference is in the trigger. I will replace the lockwork with Ed Brown parts when it comes back. The Kimber has a forged frame versus an investment cast frame, but my Charles Daly has been 100% reliable so far. (Even the factory magazines !)
 
Tamara, it was not my intent to start a war here but simply to state my views. I still have to disagree with you.

<<If someone shells out $600-$800 bucks for a gun, they are going to post here and complain about any flaw, any imperfection no matter how insignificant. >>

I wasn't referring to minor imperfections, I was referring to major problems that required a trip back to the mfg to correct.

<<If someone buys a $350 gun that half his buddies told him wasn't going to be all that great from the jump off, is he going to say anything about it here? >>

I would think so yes, I paid $299 for my CD and it functions just as well or better than the high-dollar guns. Over at 1911.com there is a whole section devoted to CDs.

<<If you think the only difference between the guns is the name and the price tag, then nothing I or anyone else can say is going to convince you otherwise. >>

I will take personal experience over someone else's word. I respect an expert's opinions but their word is not gospel. I have handled and shot Wilson, Kimber and a number of other custom guns including high dollar race guns. I shot IPSC for 5 years before I went back to college and couldn't afford to shoot as much.

As far as metallurgy and all that goes, as I said before I believe Charles is working hard to improve the quality of his firearms and the early ones were pretty poor, from what I've heard. Thing is though, the folks in IPSC are as prone to name worship as anyone else. Look at what happens as soon as Leatham or someone wins, everyone has to jump on the bandwagon with whatever equipment they're using.
 
NapAttack,

If you are going to compare numbers of complaints on BBs on the internet and declare them significant, then you also need to include the numbers of those particular firearms that are in "circulation" (i.e. Kimbers/Dalys that have been sold). I think its a pretty safe bet that the percentage of "problem" Kimbers is far smaller than that of Dalys.

I do know this, Kimber sells an awful lot of handguns.

Shake
 
Tamara,

Just what is a "tinker's damn"? Regardsing IPSC competition: You can bet the sponsors care about the name on the side of the gun, and the back of the shirt, and the front of the cap, and the side of the glasses, and the back of the belt, and the side of the holster, and the back of the shoes, and the bottom of the magazines, and the side of the optical sight, and... (ad infinitum)

Gryphon,

You should be shooting a Griffon. They are much better than the Charles Dalys I saw at the Dallas gun shows this month.
 
9x19,

Never had a chance to shoot a Griffon yet. Don't htink I've ever seen one around my neck of the woods.

Until I find one, I'll be happy with my CD, and the money I didn't spend on an overpriced Kimber, I'll spend on extra ammo.
 
$300 Sistema...

quote:
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If you want to go inexpensive then buy a Systema Colt.It's the same price as the CD's and made better
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Have ya checked the prices on those bad boys recently? Gone are the days of the $299.00 Systema.

Good Shooting
RED
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Hmmmmm:

  • Sistema Colt Modelo 1927, Caliber .45 ACP Grade 1: $300.00 plus $12.00 shipping
  • Arsenal Refinished Grade 2: $290.00 plus $12.00 shipping
  • Grade 3: $270.00 plus $12.00 shipping

http://www.cruffler.com/JLD.html

???
 
I bought a 400$ CD because I was looking for a 1911 to shoot a lot, tinker with a bit and generally enjoy shooting until the gun whistles when a breeze kicks up. The day I picked it up I took it, and 100 rounds of 230-grain PMC ball, to the range to see how it would run (or not;)) and what I might want to change first. Using only the two factory magazines that were included (I left my Wilson magazine at home.Oops!) I fired all 100 rounds over the course of about 30 minutes. I had no malfunctions. The gun did exhibit poor accuracy, part of which I'm sure was due to the poor trigger. (The trigger felt like some one had poured a 40 pound bag of sand into the lockwork, but it never failed to function.) Once I was home I sat down to clean the gun and check for unusuall wear. What I found was a quarter inch round pit in the barrel about a half inch from the muzzle at about the five o'clock position. I also found some slight finish wear on the top of the frame rails consistent with normal break-in and use. I took the gun back to the place I bought it and they sent it back for repair. I have since gone to 1911Heaven for replacement lockwork parts and some instruction of how to properly install and set up my new trigger. When the gun comes back I'll let all that are interested how everything works out.
 
i paid 725 for a kimber custom target and have nothing but
good things to say about accuracy and reliability.not one problem.
 
Tamara, thank you. I enjoy a spirited discussion. Don't get me wrong I am not saying that the Kimber is not a fine pistol. It is, but for me I would not pay the extra bucks for one.

Shrake, of course I cannot do a rigorous statistical analysis regarding the number of problems with Kimbers versus CD. However, my point is that if I pay that much more for a Kimber vs a CD then it better not have any problems. For the amount you pay for a Kimber I see entirely too many posts regarding serious functional problems.

As blades67 posted, I purchased a CD for the same reasons. I don't mind correcting a few problems with a $300 CD and I was pleasantly surprised with the quality and accuracy of my CD. The trigger was somewhat rough which a little time with some stones fixed right up with stock parts.

While I thoroughly enjoy shooting the 1911, part of the fun is to tinker with it and see what I can do to fit it exactly to my tastes.
 
I agree u cant make a clunker into a diamond , the CD guns are just junk plain and simple ,to think other wise is just plain silly.Try putting tens of thousands of rounds through the gun then come back and say how great they are.For the casual shooter who does not know any better they will do fine ,but the ones who know the difference they will never do!
 
Try putting tens of thousands of rounds through the gun then come back and say how great they are
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I'll get back to you in about a year then. I've had mine since November and I've put well over 1000 rounds through it with no major trouble.

The only trouble is that the gun, like many 1911s, is not designed out of the box to take anything but FMJ unless you polish the feed ramp. I put many boxes of various brands of hollowpoints through without a hitch until I finally tried my favorites (Federal Hydroshock, Personal Defense load) and it didn't like them. Now I guess I'll have to do what I supposively had to do to shoot hps anyway.

The only other problem was that the mags were crap. Cheap fix, $25 for some high quality mags and the gun works fine.

So $25 for replacement mags, a little time polishing the feed ramp and anywhere from $300-500 for the gun (depending upon the exact model and where you live) as opposed to $600-1400 (depending upon the exact model and where you live) for the Kimber and both MAY have some problems but both will probably work just fine. I'll take the inferior fit and finish of the CD for now as the gun works great. Eventually, I'll probably drop the money for a premium brand because it would be nice to have but not because I have to.
 
Just what is a "tinker's damn"?
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Tinkers were metal workers, often itinerant, who made and repaired metal household goods. Back in the pre-industrial revolution days everything, including pots and pans, was handmade and expensive. Thus, if a pot got a hole in it, you got it repaired not replaced. A "tinker's dam" was a dam of clay set up around the hole to keep the solder from running as he patched the hole. The dam, of course, was immediately removed when the job was complete. A "tinker's dam", therefore, became synomous with anything transient or disposable. To say that you don't give a "tinker's dam" means that you are estimating something to be even less than worthless.
 
Just what is a "tinker's damn"?
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Golgo-13 provided one definition, the other possible one is that tinkers (who often cut or burned themselves at their work) cussed a lot, and so a "Tinker's damn" was a frequently heard curse that was not to be taken as seriously as a heartfelt oath from a more upstanding citizen. ;)

(TFL: Come for the guns, stay for the etymology. :cool: )
 
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