Chances of Armed Revolt in the US????

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I'm not trying to put a damper on things here, but let's assume we DO have a violent uprising of freedom-lovers like us and we do succeed in overthrowing the current government.

What next? What do we replace it with? One that's even more corrupt? Or do we restore the Constitutional Republic we once had?

My quess would be the former; there are TOO many sheeple in this country who have no freaking idea what freedom is. They couldn't even spell "Constitution", let alone recite any part of it.

The key is EDUCATION of the masses. All that most people get is INDOCTRINATION from the press.

At work, I'm known as the "political guy" or the "radical militia guy." I often get into discussions about our current state and ask many questions of co-workers to try to get them to "visualize FREEDOM" for their themselves, their families and descendants. I preach about the essential RTKBA.

You know what? I think I'm getting through. At first, I know I come across as a "kook", but after a while, when common sense kicks in, they see my point. I've taken a few to the range. Helped with a couple of firearms purchases, and even had a few join the NRA. I SHAME them into registering to vote. "If you don't vote, don't b!tch" I tell them.

If every gun owner could just do this with ONE person, we could make an even bigger difference in our pursuit for Liberty.

I read somewhere that during the 1st American Revolution, 1/3rd of the people wanted to remain under British rule. 1/3rd wanted Independence. The last 1/3rd could care less either way. I think this formula would still work today. Let's get that 1/3rd first, and then we'll talk Revolution.

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WAR is when the government tells you who the enemy is.

REVOLUTION is when you decide that for yourself...
 
So far, We the People can't even mount a revolution at the polls! We haven't even tried the political solution. Most people can't agree on what to have for dinner much less agree on what to fight for and when.

We haven't been truely free in over a generation and the next generation will be little more than government servants. We already give nearly half of everything we earn to the government. Our States are constantly blackmailed into the federal fold by threats to withhold federal matching funds if they don't bend to federal power. Our government can kill innocent people, on purpose or by mistake, with impunity - all for the "war" on drugs, the "war" on crime or the "war" on domestic terrorism.

The federal government has already declared war on our rights. The fact that a revolution has not already occured speaks volumes!

Just my opinion...

Mikey
 
I have noticed that every time this revolution thing comes up on TFL, EnochGale is always calling people "wackos" if they contribute a certain opinion to it. I'm glad that she wasn't around back when the forefathers were trying to establish independance from British rule. She would have demoralized the troops!

Frankly, I don't care what the sheeple think about us. A lot of the sheep will continue to vote for the candidate that will give them most of the public treasury. That fact right there tells you that most will never support the overthrow of a government that pays them for their votes through ponzi schemes such as welfare, social security, medicare/cade, etc..

I think that this revolution discussion is a viable subject and should be spoken about freely. The forefathers warned us that a revolution every once and a while would be necessary and they warned us about people like EnochGale.

Joel
 
posted July 21, 2000 08:14 AM

http://www.keepandbeararms.com/newsarchives/XcNewsPlus.asp?cmd=view&articleid=327

How Will They Confiscate Your Guns?

by John A. Sutter
in California

For decades I have heard gun owners claim that the government would
never be able to confiscate our firearms because the government would
lose too many men. The implication being, of course, that gun owners
would actively resist confiscation, even to the point of shooting back. But
I believe this thinking is outdated and doesn’t align very well with reality.
But before you tell me how big your honor guard in Hell will be when that
day comes, let’s think about how the government could really do it.

Suppose, for the sake of argument, the government bans all civilian
possession of firearms at the end of this month. Congress passes a total
ban and the President cuts his own re-election throat by signing it. Gun
owners get some grace period to turn them in, even beyond the deadline,
without being charged with a crime. If we use Australia and Britain as
examples there will still be a significant number of firearms that are not
turned in. Some estimates put the Australian turn-in at less than 25%
and the British faired only about 28%. But Australians and the British
have long been used to obeying almost every gun control law. Not so the
Americans. When laws are passed that we don’t like, we bite. We scratch.
We vote. So here we sit after the guns have been collected and the
amnesties have run out. Now what? Send out the personnel carriers, swat
and shock troops to seize the guns from those militia “terrorists” who
refused to turn them in? Don’t be silly.

The government has lots of records about you. If you purchased a firearm
since 1968, chances are that they have some record of it somewhere.
Most likely, it will take quite some time for them to compile all the serial
numbers of “surrendered” guns (surrendered essentially at gunpoint) and
cross off the ones you turned in. It’ll take more time for them to attempt
to “clean up” their data. Say, about two years, maybe three. Add to that
the hordes of people keypunching in hundreds of thousands of sales and
registration records from hundreds of gun stores forced out of business.
At some point the government decides they have something approaching
a “good” database of unaccounted-for guns.

The next thing you’ll get from the government is an official looking notice
that they think you still have a firearm. Their information will probably
include all the information from registration forms, right down to the serial
number. That notice will tell you that you’re in violation of the law, subject
to prosecution and imprisonment. It will give you some period of time to
surrender the gun. It will also give you a very limited number of days to
return the form with an explanation of why you don’t have the gun, any
proof you have, and your signature that the gun was lawfully disposed of.
For many people the idea that the government “knows” they didn’t turn in
that pistol or rifle and they have the detailed information about it will be
enough to get them to surrender the gun. Some people will ignore the
letter, others will scrawl a note that “I sold this in 1982 in a private sale”.
After some time, the government will figure out how many guns are still
out there and what the “compliance rate” is with the gun ban. More
importantly, they’ll start sorting their database by the number of guns
someone supposedly has “unaccounted”.

If you think they’ll come at these multiple-gun owners with a swat team,
guess again. Their most likely tactic will be yet another letter (maybe two
more) that generate what they’ll call “insufficient responses”. That means
they can’t track a gun after you owned it. This they’ll use as fodder for a
search warrant and/or perjury charges at a later date if they can. My
guess is that the time between April and August will be a bad time for a
lot of “former” gun owners. Remember that the BATF is an arm of the
Treasury department and they control the IRS. You’ll probably get a
notice in the mail that the IRS has some questions about your taxes or
wants to audit you. When you make the appointment to visit the IRS they
will pass that information to the BATF. While you are sweating over your
deductions, the BATF and local police will execute a search warrant and
search your home looking for guns. With you safely off site and
distracted, essentially forced into “the royal presence” of the IRS they will
snag your guns. Expect them to use slow-scan and ground penetrating
radar to search walls, yards, under the patio or deck, the basement, etc.
You might even find your hot tub has been drained and moved. Yes,
they’ll search your car in the IRS parking lot too.

If you are one of the those people they suspect of having multiple guns
and they don’t find any guns at your home, expect them to find and
search storage facilities, safety deposit boxes and other places you might
use. Warn your relatives who live nearby that they can expect a visit too,
even (or perhaps especially) if they never owned a gun. If they are
thorough, I’d expect the government agents to check your neighbors to
see which of them previously owned a gun and perhaps search their
homes, arguing that your neighbor could have held your guns while
agents searched your home. Remember that at this point the government
authorities don’t have much to fear from the general population. And by
the time your complaints are run through the mill, rejected and turned into
lawsuits, they’ll have changed the rules.

But you only have one gun you say? Fine. They won’t come looking for it.
But they will make sure that possession of ammunition is also a serious
crime. Don’t leave any loose cartridges around and where will you hide
that case of ammo you rushed out to buy? Expect any “gun parts” to be
made illegal at some point in time too. Spare magazines, maybe even
old cleaning kits. Anything that says “gun” will be interpreted as “probable
cause” to search your entire home. Also expect that you can never use
that gun without becoming a serious felon in the eyes of the government.
Even if some thug has repeatedly stabbed you with a large knife and
threatened to rape your six year old daughter, they won’t forgive you for
having the gun. They may even give you extra penalties for using it to
save your family. Especially if you are one of the first few hundred people
caught this way, they will use you to “set an example”. This will cause
people to “bury” their guns away in hiding places, making them all but
useless. If the government does come to confiscate it, you won’t be able
to get to it fast enough and they will probably find it.

You’ve moved several times since you bought a gun? Remember showing
your ID when you bought a gun? Remember writing down your place of
birth? Why do you think the government has so many computers?
Linking you to your new driver’s license in another state shouldn’t be too
hard. Besides, the Treasury folks know where you work. Think you’re safe
because you had unregistered guns? Think again. I would expect that the
government’s database will contain a lot of old data. Some of it might
indicate that a gun was sold to a resident at your address. If they can tie
you to ammo sales or range use with your credit card in the previous 2
years you might get a surprise visit. Or that seller might have
remembered you bought that gun from him and filled out his gun notice
to get “off the hook” for that gun.

The point of this article is that by thinking in limited terms of a “raid” to
confiscate guns we lose sight of the alternative methods the government
can use. Put yourself in the government’s position and think of your own
methods to avoid a conflict. Meanwhile, let’s ensure that every gun owner
votes for gun rights this year and the next. You can think of a thousand
excuses not to vote, not to help a campaign, not to help another gun
owner register to vote. I can think of one important reason to do all of
those.

Liberty!
 
Another thought on the 1% rule...

Okay, there's the 1% of the NRA - But I suspect that there's folks not in the NRA, but who are highly likely to act - Take, for instance, the average buyer of an assault rifle replica or battle rifle replica - How many AK-variants have been imported and sold? A million? I'd venture that 5-10% of that population are likely to belong to "1 percenters." Likewise with ARs, tricked out Mini-14s, etc... Lots of folks went out and bought case after case of SKS ammo when it looked like it was gonna go away... I suspect the numbers are significantly bigger than just 1% of NRA members...
 
Sorry to spoil the fun, but it is my opinion that those who propose a revolution over gun rights and conservative causes have little insight into the political and social nature of the USA. It is a fantasy of a people who see themselves in a minority status and cannot figure out a successful political stratgegy to convince the public of the righteous nature of the RKBA cause.

If you don't like to hear critcisms of your ideas, then you don't understand the nature of evaluating a plan. You should get the toughest negatives you can.

So:

1. You won't have the public's support
2. There aren't as many of you that will come
forward as you think. All of you on this
list will be quickly arrested.
3. The general public will turn you in.
4. You have no idea of the form of government
after.
5. Every minority group in the country will
fight you to the death if it seems like
a right wing revolution. I want all the
big brave folk here to volunteer to be
on patrol through your local inner city,
night after night. Step up now!
6. Strategies that kill people who are seen
as innocent will make you actively hunted
down
7. The best you MAY accomplish is making some
sections of the country into a hell hole
like Northern Ireland or at worst, you
generate some more Tim McVeigh wannabees.

Talking about the power of sacred texts like the BOR or the Constitution doesn't make people turn out for a revolution.

Also, when newbies to the gun world read this list, I would like them to see that joining the RKBA world doesn't mean that you have to buy into fantasies and plans.

I understand your frustration that the general public is turning away from what some of you believe. So try to convince them. Revolution talk will convince the people you need support from that the RKBA is the province of wackos.

The most successful politically empowering movements in the USA have achieved their goals without armed revolution

a. Civil Rights
b. Women's right to vote
c. Ending the War in Vietnam

Mass demonstrations (some rioting, of course)
but no waves of home grown commandos with AR-15s. Why can't the RKBA cause be as successful? Why do you abandon political action for revolution talk?

Because, you can't come up with a convincing message for the general public. Since you can't convince the public, then you want them to support you in a revolution. Get real.
 
Numbers is right.

I don't see people protesting in numbers for rkba.

What I DO see is communists taking to the streets in large numbers at the WTO conference (why, I'll never know), or rioting outside of the Dem. convention that Klint isn't socialist enough (why, I'll never know).

If there WERE to be a revolution it would be them. As far as support, they'd have the whole entertainment industry behind them.

If you recall also that for every one of them there are many who just don't go to protests - people of the RKBA persuasion are NOTHING by comparison. (Remember that most gun owners are not RKBA so don't give me that "80 million gunowner" rubbish).

We talk about the pre-FDR days as days of almost total freedom. Most people don't know how close the US came to communist revolution before then. The only reason this was staved off was that their agenda was adopted as a goal; but it would be achieved through a peaceful and sustainable transition, not in one blow like the USSR.

Communists did not want to be poor and starving like in the USSR, so the movement (mostly) accepted this. See how if a politician says "we'll give away free healthcare/food/computers to all" the only comeback to that is not "that's not govt.'s job, to redistribute wealth" or "people have property rights"; but rather "we can't afford it right now".


Battler.
 
Let's face it. If you can't get people to get off their asses and vote when they can register online and polls are practically within walking distance, what chance do you have of asking them to take a bullet for a political cause?

Our political system works fine - the problem isn't in our system as much as it resides within the citizens themselves.
 
Likely scenario:

Dateline: Smallville - 80 people died, and more than 30 homes were destroyed today, when a right wing militia group was cornered in a member's heavily fortified house in the Happy Acres subdivision, and rather than surrender peacefully to the state peacekeepers, chose to hold out inside. Authorities are not sure at this point, but they think that most of the deaths were caused by the group accidentally detonating explosives which were illegally stored on the premises.

Translation: Bubba shot the guy who came to his door and asked for his guns. He shot the next one too, and a couple of his neighbors came over, and they shot the bejeezus outta the next patrol car. Then the peacekeepers showed up with a half-dozen infantry, an armored vehicle, a mortar, and some heavy machine guns, and sat off a few hundred yards away, and walked mortar shells into the place for a half hour or so... Collateral damage included half the subdivision.
 
That certainly has turned out well, Oleg.

Do you think the country wants to leave in that situation for the RKBA? Don't think so.

Guerrilla wars have to have support of the people. Does anyone really think that the general public will support this revolution?

Or do you plan to assassinate those who disagree with the RKBA revolution? That's a common guerrilla tactic. Is that what we want here?

Try to win the political battle. Stop worrying about the Communists filling the streets. This is the rhetoric of an ingroup that is not in touch with the feeling of the public. It is your feelings due to anger and frustration.
 
DZ: I appreciate the thought and effort you put into your reply, but govt. efforts will never go so far before armed response begins. Many folk's response to the encroachment may go like this: as each category of firearm is put on a "must register" list, (Kali today), those arms go into the personal militia cache with ammo and cleaning gear, zeroed and ready. Rather than stupidly burying them on one's property, they would be stored in old junkyards, abandoned factories and barns and so on. A few self defense and hunting weapons would be kept at home, and registered as a show of "good faith" in the honesty and good intentions of the government. If and when it is demanded they be turned in, turn them in. ***** At that point the government will have clearly shown its anti-constitutional face, and all bets will be off. It matters not if 51% or 90% of Americans polled support confiscation, the constitution stands until amended, period. Millions of Americans took a sworn oath to defend that constitution against ALL enemies, foreign AND DOMESTIC. After taking that oath, those millions were marched to rifle ranges and shown one way to defend it. So is is foolish to talk about "armed revolt", when we are talking about UPHOLDING a SWORN OATH to defend the constitution. **** After the government has turned tyrant by demanding you turn over your registered "good faith" weapons, on a dark and rainy night patriots will go to their caches, take down their "militia rifle", and begin the task of defending the constitution, one "domestic enemy" at a time. It is well known who they are. Then the individual, acting alone and telling no one, replaces the milita rifle in its cache and goes to work as usual. **** Never underestimate the latent power in millions of deer rifles, fired one round at a time. There is no way on earth to put even a 300 yard security perimeter around our well known domestic enemies and traitors to the constitution.
 
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