Cecil the lion

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I'm no fan of trophy hunters, poachers, or the civies who provide the market for endangered species. This case in particular is abhorrent given the lengths this "hunter" went to kill this particular lion, and thru incompetence or sadism prolonged his suffering.

And, yes, there is a lot of suffering going around the world but it seems to me that the vast majority of posters criticizing those who have compassion for this "dumb animal" haven't pursued any human charities beyond their own.
 
I fully support hunting to fill your freezer full of meat, or to keep population in check. But to kill animals simply for thrill or for pleasure, you are no different than the sick neighborhood kid killing people's cats for kicks. In my mind if you get enjoyment from killing animals you are one sick minded individual.
 
Passing on the Big-6

You use to hear a lot about hunting the Big-6 or whatever. I once reviewed the list and mostly talked myself out of it. Here is my measure;

Elephant: I honestly think the skies would open up and I would be smited!
Rhinoceros: Not many of them left to hunt.
Leopard: Just a big cat and we are seeing more of them around here.
Lion: Just another big cat. Hard to eat and cook.
Hippopotamus: Related to the horse and full body mount won't work.
Cape Buffalo: Now youre talking and there is a fella worth, your salt. However, have seen what they will do if you don't shoot straight. :eek:

Be prudent and;
Be Safe !!!
 
I am continually amazed at the knee-jerk reactions we have today from both sides. I would like a few more UNFILTERED facts before I decide the right and wrong of it. How come the facts don't seem to matter anymore and why would anyone believe what the modern press and social media say?
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It strikes me as a modern version of the Salem witch trials. If the reported story is accurate I don't have much sympathy for the guy, but his family didn't do much to deserve the wrath of the internet. And their lives have been destroyed for a long time.

I'm aware that trophy hunting can be a positive for African people and wildlife. However it seems that this specific lion was already a big draw, and making plenty of money for the locals. I don't have a problem with someone paying that much money for a hunt, that's his business. I do struggle to understand how someone smart enough to have that much money for a hunt could be stupid enough to spend 50k to essentially ruin their life.
 
^
Rhinos themselves are a pretty depressing topic. I wasn't around to watch the dodo go extinct but there are only four Northern Whites left.
 
I do struggle to understand how someone smart enough to have that much money for a hunt could be stupid enough to spend 50k to essentially ruin their life.
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Hey, even today you have surgeons cutting off the wrong leg or removing the wrong kidney when all they needed was one minute to review the patient's notes. Money or prestige is no indicator...
 
Some people kill because they want to kill. Hunting is an outlet for that. Many people are hunting because they enjoy killing things. No one that understands the mix of human nature that exists can deny there are people like that.

To go through all that expense and trouble to kill a lion makes no sense to me. But I'm not one to throw stones because I have killed coyotes and pigs just to eliminate a problem. I have found no joy in killing them, however I do find the process of the hunt enjoyable, and, at times, exciting.

Most of the hunters want some meat in the fridge that they harvested themselves. Most of us I'm sure has some part of an animal as a trophy or memento.

So what are valid parameters to hunt?

Is purely wanting a trophy or do you need one other parameter wit that?
My opinion is yes, you must have some other parameter in order for it to be moral.

You use the meat.
You donate the meat.
The animal poses a threat to human life.
The animal is invasive and threatens the health and well being of the public, domestic animals or farms,
The animal population needs management.

None of us will agree on everything, but we can accept certain hunts if it is legal (whether we approve or not) and done with some morality.
I don't believe archery belongs on a lion hunt (my opinion).
 
I drove by his clinic yesterday, he has closed shop, lots of signs (not flattering BTW) and stuffed lions left out front...
 
I really do not see why anyone actually cares about a lion half way around the world. The whole thing is ridiculous. Was the lion shot on protected property? NO. End of story. Baiting prey is common all over the place.
 
how many thousends of children are starving in Africa as people bitch about this?

How many are dying in AIDS? How many are killed in wars (that frankly the West has got a big part in)

It is a lion, it would not recipicate peoples sympathy

Trophy hunting is a win win situation, how can that be so hard to understand for some greenies?

Trophy hunting benefits conservation
Trophy hunting benefits locals more than them just hunting for eating the meat themselves, with trophy hunting they can get jobs in the industry and most of the time get the meat to

here is a good podcast about the subject
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8A1D-f_meFY

and or this documentary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmEj482K27c
 
As far as Cecil, he was killed in an approved Zim government fashion.
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Thanks for the link, Art. I've heard rumblings about this sort of corruption before, and it's no secret that these canned hunts are an economic boon for the host nation in many cases.

If people are so upset about this, maybe they should look at removing the (significant) economic incentives behind it.
 
I drove by his clinic yesterday, he has closed shop, lots of signs (not flattering BTW) and stuffed lions left out front...
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As this is the Hunting Forum I will not comment on the specific person as that would be inappropriate.
 
I really do not see why anyone actually cares about a lion half way around the world. The whole thing is ridiculous. Was the lion shot on protected property? NO. End of story. Baiting prey is common all over the place.
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Precisely the attitude that has hunted other creatures to extinction, or the brink of extinction. Apparently this attitude about "not caring" is in the minority.

To the fella that said that sport hunting is an expensive adult version of killing the neighborhood cat for kicks, I agree. We had a jerk that lit one on fire when I was a kid. Same deranged mentality involved in taking pleasure from suffering and death.

Folks in favor of sport hunting act like solving the worlds problems is mutually exclusive. Well, I can be concerned about a lot of world problems and want to solve them all. Just because people are "up in arms" about Cecil, doesn't mean they/we can't also be concerned about other problems like poverty, debt, war, crime, or any other issues.

Cecil just happens to resonate with a lot of people, and be a clear case of the issue of sport hunting and poaching. And it seems enough "facts" are out to ruin this dipwats life. And I have not an ounce of sympathy for him or any other sport hunters, animal abusers, or poachers - all in the same deranged mental category if you ask me.

There is not a single argument than can be made that justifies sport hunting of these majestic beasts struggling for survival. Those in favor say it's for "conservation." Yeah, right. If that were the motive, then just donate the tens of thousands of dollars to the cause and NOT kill one. The dirty truth is that it's for the joy of taking a big animal and mounting the head for bragging rights and ego. A sad, sad character trait.

Hunting them is what caused the problem. Surely hunting more is not the answer. No credible conservation organization endorses these hunts over saving these animals.

And Leadcounsel is clearly not the only one on this forum or board who thinks so... I just happen to be the loudest in protest.

I don't like to complain without a solution. So here's my solution.
The US gives $12 Billion in aid to Africa annually. Make this contingent upon stiff legal penalties for any hunting or poaching. Ban all sport hunting of the big 5 or 10 animals. Exceptions to this are granted on a case by case basis and only for dangerous or nuisance or sick animals. Possession of any animal parts is severely punished with decades in prison or death. That will solve the issue and cost very little money.
 
I will note this thread asked for opinions and leadcounsel gave one in conjunction with the original post request.

Yes others on this board agree as strongly or much more so.
 
Regardless of how you feel about trophy hunting you have to admit that this guy has not represented hunting well. He's already been convicted for violating the law in the United States. And while the facts are still up in the air, he did admit to shooting the lion.

And he's no novice, he has an extensive history of trophy hunting. Therefore I'm pretty sure that he was aware of the level of corruption in Africa, and able to take measures that would ensure that he wasn't going to put an arrow into what turned out to be the Mickey Mouse of safari tourism.

If his actions lead to a ban on lion hunting will those who support that practice be willing to accept the ban quietly? There are so many more pressing problems in Africa to worry about than trophy hunting.
 
Regardless of how you feel about trophy hunting you have to admit that this guy has not represented hunting well. He's already been convicted for violating the law in the United States. And while the facts are still up in the air, he did admit to shooting the lion.

And he's no novice, he has an extensive history of trophy hunting. Therefore I'm pretty sure that he was aware of the level of corruption in Africa, and able to take measures that would ensure that he wasn't going to put an arrow into what turned out to be the Mickey Mouse of safari tourism.

If his actions lead to a ban on lion hunting will those who support that practice be willing to accept the ban quietly? There are so many more pressing problems in Africa to worry about than trophy hunting.
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Thank you! What an excellent post.
 
So let me get this straight; the Great White Hunter decides he wants to kill The King of the Beasts with a pointed stick. The PH realizes he has to find his "client" an old, mostly tame lion to kill or his client (and possibly himself) are going to end up as fertilizer on the African dust. Fortunately his client has $50K in bribe and hush money (which some naive people think actually goes into conservation) to spend on this misadventure. They'll just lure one out from his protected turf to someplace where a rich Yank can legally have a go at him with his pointed stick. The good doctor, having already been busted once for poaching in the U.S. of A., figures he has all his bases covered until OH!, he blows his one shot with his pointed stick and leaves the King of the Beasts to wander in agony for 40 hours until they can find and shoot him. At this point our noble hunters decide the proper course of action is to whack off the head and skin and leave the rest to rot. Did I miss anything?
 
So let me get this straight; the Great White Hunter decides he wants to kill The King of the Beasts with a pointed stick. The PH realizes he has to find his "client" an old, mostly tame lion to kill or his client (and possibly himself) are going to end up as fertilizer on the African dust. Fortunately his client has $50K in bribe and hush money (which some naive people think actually goes into conservation) to spend on this misadventure. They'll just lure one out from his protected turf to someplace where a rich Yank can legally have a go at him with his pointed stick. The good doctor, having already been busted once for poaching in the U.S. of A., figures he has all his bases covered until OH!, he blows his one shot with his pointed stick and leaves the King of the Beasts to wander in agony for 40 hours until they can find and shoot him. At this point our noble hunters decide the proper course of action is to whack off the head and skin and leave the rest to rot. Did I miss anything?
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You never missed anything.

i don't have a problem with trophy hunting so long as it is done legally. i do have a very big problem with all hunters break the law.

According to his hunting guide, Dr. Palmer had his photo taken with the lion after it was dispatched with a firearm. Dr. Palmer knew he had arrowed a lion with a tracking collar but just had to have that photo. Then they cut the cats head off and left the body and tracking collar.

Dr. Palmer plead guilty to a federal felony involving a bear. Then he settled a sexual harassment lawsuit. Now we are supposed to believe everything he says.

The US Fish and Wildlife Service are still waiting for Palmer to return their calls.
 
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