Seems like a lot of businesses are putting up NO GUN signs on their doors. Seems like there will be a lot of places we won't be able to carry now that CCW is legal in WI. My question is for those that carry and come accross this, do you have to constantly go to the door of the store, see the sign, go back to your car, take your gun off you and put it someplace in your car without anyone seeing you and then reholster it when you come back and so forth? I mean, it sounds a bit stupid to have to do that so often for a number of reasons. How do you deal with going "shopping and running erronds" when signs are up at half the businesses?
CCW in WI, quick question for other states
- Thread starter SMITH910
- Start date
youngunz4life
New member
SMITH910, Wisconsin residents are required to obey said signs if posted correctly....
http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/wisconsin.pdf
Please click on the above link for some good, credible info. The info/answer you seek is half way down the page and/or pdf. It says: "Do signs have the force of Law?" as the title to the category.
You can also click on the below link for the homepage. This will allow you to access more info, answers about other states' laws by clicking on a particular state, as well as federal laws(by clicking on U.S.A.):
www.handgunlaw.us
http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/wisconsin.pdf
Please click on the above link for some good, credible info. The info/answer you seek is half way down the page and/or pdf. It says: "Do signs have the force of Law?" as the title to the category.
You can also click on the below link for the homepage. This will allow you to access more info, answers about other states' laws by clicking on a particular state, as well as federal laws(by clicking on U.S.A.):
www.handgunlaw.us
I live in WA, which is an open carry state in addition to allowing permit holding people to concealed carry with restrictions regarding government facilities, schools and places where alcohol is served.
Here is how I deal with the rare "no guns" sign in a private establishment: I ignore it. I almost never open carry and I'm careful to stay concealed when concealed carrying. If a private business owner wants to prohibit guns that's his business. But my read of my states laws is that this is a civil matter so enforcement is exceedingly difficult. I take my chances. It's my choice, and I don't advocate it for others. I've not run into a problem so far.
I do not ignore the rules about government facilities, schools and bars.
Now if a person I know prohibits guns on his property or in his establishment I'll honor that. But a random business trying to stop me from being armed gets ignored.
Here is how I deal with the rare "no guns" sign in a private establishment: I ignore it. I almost never open carry and I'm careful to stay concealed when concealed carrying. If a private business owner wants to prohibit guns that's his business. But my read of my states laws is that this is a civil matter so enforcement is exceedingly difficult. I take my chances. It's my choice, and I don't advocate it for others. I've not run into a problem so far.
I do not ignore the rules about government facilities, schools and bars.
Now if a person I know prohibits guns on his property or in his establishment I'll honor that. But a random business trying to stop me from being armed gets ignored.
Young.Gun.612
New member
I don't know how it is for you sconnies, but here in mn the signs aren't law. That being said, if you are asked to leave because of carrying and refuse, then they can get you gor trespassing. Best not to be confrontational about it and print up a whole mess of those "No Guns=No Money" cards for you and anyone you know who carries.
buck460XVR
New member
Do that in Wisconsin and you risk losing your permit. If one is gonna defy the law as it pertains to CCW permits, why bother getting a permit in the first place.
Many of the businesses that will be posting signs are doing it because of it is their right under Wisconsin law. As responsible gun owners we should respect their rights, just as we want others to respect ours. Pain it the butt to go back and remove your carry weapon? Sure, but I'm hoping as the folks get more familiar with the law and more comfortable with law abiding folks carrying more and more of these signs will be coming down. Folks just need to realize that they are safer with honest citizens carrying than they are with just the bad guys carrying.
We are all on learning curve.
For the past year, Iowa has been going through this learning curve. Some signs have gone up and others have threatend to do so but have not. The transition has been smooth and for the most part, uneventful. The refered to document says that these signs Have the Force of Law? What the heck does that mean and what are the penalties?
At this point, I have to advise that you follow your state's laws and like many who have posted simular question/concerns, we are obliged to do so. ..
Now, what law would you be breaking and what are the penalties? Doesn't really state this. In Iowa some folks are being told, by LEO's that if the business owner sees this, you will be asked to leave and not charged. If you refuse to leave, then you "may" be charged with trespassing. How's that for breaking the law. In short and in Iowa, some folks are ignoring these signs as they feel that their handgun is safer at their side than in a car where it can be stolen. .....
Be Safe !!!
For the past year, Iowa has been going through this learning curve. Some signs have gone up and others have threatend to do so but have not. The transition has been smooth and for the most part, uneventful. The refered to document says that these signs Have the Force of Law? What the heck does that mean and what are the penalties?
At this point, I have to advise that you follow your state's laws and like many who have posted simular question/concerns, we are obliged to do so. ..
Now, what law would you be breaking and what are the penalties? Doesn't really state this. In Iowa some folks are being told, by LEO's that if the business owner sees this, you will be asked to leave and not charged. If you refuse to leave, then you "may" be charged with trespassing. How's that for breaking the law. In short and in Iowa, some folks are ignoring these signs as they feel that their handgun is safer at their side than in a car where it can be stolen. .....
Be Safe !!!
youngunz4life
New member
Smith, go to my link so you understand WI laws. That is what matters.
Here in WA there are very few "no guns" signs because a sign means nothing. The owner has to personally ask you to leave, then if you do not leave,,,then...it can be trespass. I OC everywhere and have rarely been told to leave. Those that request I leave, I leave, but I also tell them I will not be back until they change their policy and hand them my business card and ask them to contact me if they change their policy.
In WI, the proper (check the law for what consititutes a legal sign) "no guns" sign is your notice, and they do not need to tell you personally for you to be charged with trespass. I believe TX is the same way,
WI has never had a concealed law in anyones memory, and with all of the media hype, it does not surprise me. How to fix the situation. Get some "no guns/no money" business cards and every place you would have done business with that is posted...give them one. Then back it up by not giving them your business....the signs will slowly go away.
In WI, the proper (check the law for what consititutes a legal sign) "no guns" sign is your notice, and they do not need to tell you personally for you to be charged with trespass. I believe TX is the same way,
WI has never had a concealed law in anyones memory, and with all of the media hype, it does not surprise me. How to fix the situation. Get some "no guns/no money" business cards and every place you would have done business with that is posted...give them one. Then back it up by not giving them your business....the signs will slowly go away.
In WI, according to the link Youngunz posted, properly posted "no guns" signs carry force of law.
In WA they do not. The information I've been able to find tells me that you can be charged with criminal trespass only if you are asked to leave and don't. You can be sued for walking past the sign and forcing the business owner/manager to ask you to leave, but you have not committed a crime unless you refuse to leave when asked. You can be sued for spitting on the sidewalk too so I choose to ignore that "danger"
In WA I have only encountered this twice. Both times in mom and pop stores in rural areas. I concluded my business each time and avoided going back.
I accumulated what information I have about carry laws in my state at opencarry.org, handgunlaw.us, the wa.gov website and from a Snohomish County Sheriffs deputy who I coach youth football with.
youngunz4life
New member
When the cop shows up with the owner and asks you if you saw the sign you'd better say "No"
In many states if there are NO FIREARMS ALLOWED signs, you have the right to ignore them even if they are displayed at all entrances and in a reasonable manner that most everyone would see. Basically, even if you see the sign you don't have to adhere to it. You would only have to exit if requested to because the signs do not trump state law. If requested to leave due to the firearm and you don't immediately, you are guilty of a crime though.
In Wisconsin's scenario, you are required by state law to respect the NO FIREARMS ALLOWED sign as an example. Being that WI is new to the scene, they probably take it seriously especially since people are all making their decisions as to what side they are on: allowing the guns in their business or not allowing them. I am not positive, but I'm guessing you would lose your CCW if you got into trouble for this violation.
youngunz4life
New member
the quote is from www.handgunlaw.us (click on Iowa)
yes Pahoo, trespassing is pretty much an automatic charge here when not respecting the sign when you have to by law OR when you don't leave immediately upon being asked when the signs do not hold the force of law. I have never heard of the trespassing charge not being a part of it.
Iowa is different than WI. You do not have to adhere to the sign, so the legal CCW can just go about his business and keep the firearms concealed.
yes Pahoo, trespassing is pretty much an automatic charge here when not respecting the sign when you have to by law OR when you don't leave immediately upon being asked when the signs do not hold the force of law. I have never heard of the trespassing charge not being a part of it.
Iowa is different than WI. You do not have to adhere to the sign, so the legal CCW can just go about his business and keep the firearms concealed.
In the area I live there is not one single store that posts CCW restrictions. And believe me my wife gets me out to a very large radius of stores.
We have a very good state gun organization that works with local business to ask them not to restrict CCW. Implied in this cooperation is that they could loose lots of customers if they restrict CCW.
It seems to work.
BTW, when I say not one single store restricts CCW, this includes all of the national chain stores in our area.
We have a very good state gun organization that works with local business to ask them not to restrict CCW. Implied in this cooperation is that they could loose lots of customers if they restrict CCW.
It seems to work.
BTW, when I say not one single store restricts CCW, this includes all of the national chain stores in our area.
jason_iowa
New member
I ignore them except at the hospital. I don't care to be asked to leave the hospital and while being inspected by the doc there is a good chance of being seen. I don't worry about anywhere else I go
Let common sense dictate !!
It is not automatic if you are found to be carrying. What I suspect that this may vary from city to city as opposed to county to county. I know that in some counties, initially, you will be asked to leave and give you the opertunity to place it in the car. If and only if you refuse to do so, an LEO will be contacted and then, you can be charged with trespassing. I'm not talking about city or country government properties as they are currently trying to hammer these out. I'm talking about privately own properties such as theators and restaurants where you are not violating any Federal, State, County or city laws. Does a business owner have the right to post these signs? Absolutely. Do they carry any weight? .. hardly !!
Remember that you are lawfully carrying and don't have to be paranoid about it. ....
In Iowa;
It is not automatic if you are found to be carrying. What I suspect that this may vary from city to city as opposed to county to county. I know that in some counties, initially, you will be asked to leave and give you the opertunity to place it in the car. If and only if you refuse to do so, an LEO will be contacted and then, you can be charged with trespassing. I'm not talking about city or country government properties as they are currently trying to hammer these out. I'm talking about privately own properties such as theators and restaurants where you are not violating any Federal, State, County or city laws. Does a business owner have the right to post these signs? Absolutely. Do they carry any weight? .. hardly !!
Remember that you are lawfully carrying and don't have to be paranoid about it. ....
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jason_iowa
New member
Which part of the state do ya live in pahoo? A city near me passed a law making it illegal to carry on any public property. I have heard of other cities doing this as well. I'm waiting for it to be challenged.
Mikey the Barbarian
Inactive
If your carry weapon is truly concealed, they won't know you have it unless you somehow expose it to view. So, it becomes a matter of whether or not you wish to be confrontational, seems to me. I would advocate keeping your gun out of sight, not printing and keeping your mouth shut about it. That said, it is certainly your right to not frequent businesses where you are not welcome, even if they don't know you carry. But, let them know you won't be back, and why you won't be back (which can be done without having the carry weapon on you, to avoid problems.)
Concealed means concealed.
Concealed means concealed.
barstoolguru
Moderator
it sounds like yes to me
If and when someone posts that sign they need to supply adequate amount of security to protect the patrons because they are stripping you of your right to self defense. When something happens to a cc patron and they sues them for it the signs will come down fast all over .
Voice your option to the management and tell them you are not going to patronize their place of business because of it
If and when someone posts that sign they need to supply adequate amount of security to protect the patrons because they are stripping you of your right to self defense. When something happens to a cc patron and they sues them for it the signs will come down fast all over .
Voice your option to the management and tell them you are not going to patronize their place of business because of it
Life is good !!!
Jason,
I'm not sure what the term is but basicaly the county cannot pass a law that is more restrictive than what the state says. This came when "some" countie were trying to make administrative offices, Gun free zones. This would include county sherrif's offices, county court houses and other places under the control of the city and county. It is currently being tested and agued.
Again, any merchant has the right to post anything he wants, on his property but there is no law to back it up. I will honor these to the best of my ability and as the Barbarian has stated don't tolerate or support it. It's our obligation to follow the law but make sure it's really a law with real teeth and not implied. .....
Illinoise is next !!!
Be Safe !!!
Jason,
I'm not sure what the term is but basicaly the county cannot pass a law that is more restrictive than what the state says. This came when "some" countie were trying to make administrative offices, Gun free zones. This would include county sherrif's offices, county court houses and other places under the control of the city and county. It is currently being tested and agued.
Again, any merchant has the right to post anything he wants, on his property but there is no law to back it up. I will honor these to the best of my ability and as the Barbarian has stated don't tolerate or support it. It's our obligation to follow the law but make sure it's really a law with real teeth and not implied. .....
Illinoise is next !!!
Be Safe !!!