CCL (CHL) and Cops, Love 'um/Hate 'um
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Rob Pincus
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I Love 'em.
(Most educated LEOs do, and the LEAA is trying to educate all of 'em...)
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-Essayons
(Most educated LEOs do, and the LEAA is trying to educate all of 'em...)
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-Essayons
The police force of the city where I live is reputed to be anti-CHL and the statements of the Dept. spokesmen on TV seem to bear that out. What a shame.
Crime has gone down dramatically since the institution of the CHL law. I don't think the CHL factor is the only one, but it can't just be coincidence either. Neither the police nor the media cites the CHL provision in the statistics.
Thanks to all you LEO's who regard this situation in the proper light.
Crime has gone down dramatically since the institution of the CHL law. I don't think the CHL factor is the only one, but it can't just be coincidence either. Neither the police nor the media cites the CHL provision in the statistics.
Thanks to all you LEO's who regard this situation in the proper light.
Yes I agree, thanks alot to LEOs in the first place and big thanks to those who respect CCL holders.
In Iowa there is a Sheriff, who has gone public, with the idea of organizing CCL holders in case of a massive Y2K eruption.
He says CCL holders are the most responsible and lawabiding group of people he can count on if the poop hits the fan.
You gotta love it!
In Iowa there is a Sheriff, who has gone public, with the idea of organizing CCL holders in case of a massive Y2K eruption.
He says CCL holders are the most responsible and lawabiding group of people he can count on if the poop hits the fan.
You gotta love it!
Stephen A. Camp
Staff In Memoriam
Greetings to all! As a recently retired Texas police officer, I can say that in my experience, at least here, most support CHL.
As the "Law Enforcement/Public Safety Issues" director for the Texas State Rifle Association, I can also say that there are a FEW examples of law enforcement that do not!
I truly believe that the average Texas police officer either supports or has nothing against CHL holders. It seems that the main culprit in getting CHLs revoked is DWI, but that's certainly NOT the leo's fault. Less than 0.02% of CHL holders have been arrested since the law was enacted and convictions will be lower. Of that small figure, even fewer had anything to do with firearms! Best
As the "Law Enforcement/Public Safety Issues" director for the Texas State Rifle Association, I can also say that there are a FEW examples of law enforcement that do not!
I truly believe that the average Texas police officer either supports or has nothing against CHL holders. It seems that the main culprit in getting CHLs revoked is DWI, but that's certainly NOT the leo's fault. Less than 0.02% of CHL holders have been arrested since the law was enacted and convictions will be lower. Of that small figure, even fewer had anything to do with firearms! Best
hankrearden98
New member
I suspect that the official voices of those departments that supposedly oppose CCW do not reflect the attitudes of the people who actually do the police work. It is probably much the same (hopefully not as bad) as with prison guards, where administrators tend to be at odds, for whatever reasons, with the people who do the job.
Well, here's an email I got from James Yeager, an LEO in TN, when I gave him some feedback about some of the articles on his website:
"Thanks for reading my articles. The Liberals will be our downfall!
"I hope you have your FL CCW. If not get off your ass and get it. It is good in TN now and vice versa.
"Send my page to EVERYBODY.
"1* JamesYeager"
I think that pretty much explains that LEO's POV on the matter
jth
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Exodus 22:2 -- Biblical precedent for home defense.
"Thanks for reading my articles. The Liberals will be our downfall!
"I hope you have your FL CCW. If not get off your ass and get it. It is good in TN now and vice versa.
"Send my page to EVERYBODY.
"1* JamesYeager"
I think that pretty much explains that LEO's POV on the matter
jth
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Exodus 22:2 -- Biblical precedent for home defense.
Well... I get the feeling our Pflugerville LEOs don't have any problems with us. I was stopped for going a little too fast on an open country road. As always, I presented both my DL and CHL. I was asked if I had a firearm on me at that time. I explained I was on my way back from a match and had a couple of pistols in my range bag. The officer simply told me to leave the bag behind me while he checked my info.
Upon returning, he informed me of my infraction and the proper speed limit in the area, gave me a warning.. and then asked how I shot that day.
As I explained IDPA, he became even more interested.
I think we are in good shape with the LOEs around here.
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Bubba
IDPA# A04739
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It is long been a principal of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully. - Jeff Cooper
Upon returning, he informed me of my infraction and the proper speed limit in the area, gave me a warning.. and then asked how I shot that day.
As I explained IDPA, he became even more interested.I think we are in good shape with the LOEs around here.
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Bubba
IDPA# A04739
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It is long been a principal of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully. - Jeff Cooper
Texas, Tn, Florida. Am I the only one who notices that all the correspondents are from the 'ol south. How about some LEO's from Vermont or Maine or anywhere "up North" I'm always a little concerned that non-shooters who I know tease me about the fact that shooters come from south of the Mason Dixon Line, a little help would be appreciated. By the way I'm from Pa myself and would love to hear similar views from a Pa LEO.
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Mike H
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Mike H
Mike H,
Just a little bit of trivia, totally meaningless probably, but maybe helpful in some way. Texas is right on the dividing line between the "East" and the "West." This is true geographically and in other ways.
I don't know if they still do so, but the Ft. Worth promoters used to declare that their city was "out where the West begins." And they were correct, the 98th meridian being the official dividing line between East and West. The part of Texas (roughly speaking) east of that line is basically, as you refer to it, "ol' South" (always capitalized by southerners, BTW, who would also capitalize "southerners").
My wife, who was born and spent her first 21 or so years in the Houston area is from "the Old South." I, who was born and spent the first 32 years of my life some 300 or so miles west of Ft. worth, am a "westerner." In fact, I am now 56, and, though I have never lived east of the 98th meridian, I did spend eleven years as a "displaced person" in western Oklahoma. I now live as far west as you can get in Texas without moving into Mexico.
I ask your forgiveness for this indulgence, but actually, there is not one "Texas," but several, it is so vast and varied, both culturally and geographically. The folks in Austin (the legislature, etc.) hardly consider us out here a part of the state because we're so far west and there is so much barrenness between us.
This is such an important point to me because I am a former teacher of Texas history. I can't quite let it go, sorry. It seems that no matter how much there is to unite us, we always can find or manufacture more to divide us.
All of Texas historically has a heritage of keepin and using firearms, sometimes incorrectly and immorally. It is only fairly recently, historically, with urbanization, that the liberal mindset has come to the forefront, as is largely true elsewhere as I see it.
[This message has been edited by Rod WMG (edited September 16, 1999).]
Just a little bit of trivia, totally meaningless probably, but maybe helpful in some way. Texas is right on the dividing line between the "East" and the "West." This is true geographically and in other ways.
I don't know if they still do so, but the Ft. Worth promoters used to declare that their city was "out where the West begins." And they were correct, the 98th meridian being the official dividing line between East and West. The part of Texas (roughly speaking) east of that line is basically, as you refer to it, "ol' South" (always capitalized by southerners, BTW, who would also capitalize "southerners").
My wife, who was born and spent her first 21 or so years in the Houston area is from "the Old South." I, who was born and spent the first 32 years of my life some 300 or so miles west of Ft. worth, am a "westerner." In fact, I am now 56, and, though I have never lived east of the 98th meridian, I did spend eleven years as a "displaced person" in western Oklahoma. I now live as far west as you can get in Texas without moving into Mexico.
I ask your forgiveness for this indulgence, but actually, there is not one "Texas," but several, it is so vast and varied, both culturally and geographically. The folks in Austin (the legislature, etc.) hardly consider us out here a part of the state because we're so far west and there is so much barrenness between us.
This is such an important point to me because I am a former teacher of Texas history. I can't quite let it go, sorry. It seems that no matter how much there is to unite us, we always can find or manufacture more to divide us.
All of Texas historically has a heritage of keepin and using firearms, sometimes incorrectly and immorally. It is only fairly recently, historically, with urbanization, that the liberal mindset has come to the forefront, as is largely true elsewhere as I see it.
[This message has been edited by Rod WMG (edited September 16, 1999).]
I was fondling a G27 the other day and two local LEOs were joking around trying to get me to buy it on the spot. It worked, I did. I asked one of the guys what good such a weapon is and he told me I should get a CCW and carry it.
I asked them to get serious (a serious cop in a gunshop, yeah, right) and asked them how they feel about CCW. Both of them really like the idea of CCW. In addition to the obvious reasons, one of them told me folks without CCW permits have a nasty habit of taking any concealed weapon they have in the car and lay it on the seat when they get stopped. Then he walks up to the car, sees the weapon and wonders what the heck is going on. Folks with a CCW leave the weapon where it belongs, out of sight.
The other LEO told me anytime their agency runs a check on a person a check for CCW is automatically run. I asked if that wasn't a bit intrusive and paranoid and he told me they do it because if the person comes back as a CCW holder they check no further since they know the guy is OK and has already had a background check performed. Hmmm...is that good or bad...gotta think on that one.
I asked them to get serious (a serious cop in a gunshop, yeah, right) and asked them how they feel about CCW. Both of them really like the idea of CCW. In addition to the obvious reasons, one of them told me folks without CCW permits have a nasty habit of taking any concealed weapon they have in the car and lay it on the seat when they get stopped. Then he walks up to the car, sees the weapon and wonders what the heck is going on. Folks with a CCW leave the weapon where it belongs, out of sight.
The other LEO told me anytime their agency runs a check on a person a check for CCW is automatically run. I asked if that wasn't a bit intrusive and paranoid and he told me they do it because if the person comes back as a CCW holder they check no further since they know the guy is OK and has already had a background check performed. Hmmm...is that good or bad...gotta think on that one.
Rod WMG makes a good point; generalizations often miss the mark. especially when you look at the "big 3" states; Alaska, California, and Texas. each of the three has several different ecologies, several different local cultures, etc.
being a CA native, I tend to get annoyed when people assume all Californians are liberal New-Age types. CA has more rednecks than Georgia, more lawyers than NY, more farms than Iowa, more conservatives than Utah, more liberals than Massachusetts. its a pretty diverse place.
on the original issue, like everything else it depends on where you are. where I now live, the LEOs in urban and suburban areas have been against it and continue to oppose it. the rural guys are supposed to be tolerant of it.
being a CA native, I tend to get annoyed when people assume all Californians are liberal New-Age types. CA has more rednecks than Georgia, more lawyers than NY, more farms than Iowa, more conservatives than Utah, more liberals than Massachusetts. its a pretty diverse place.
on the original issue, like everything else it depends on where you are. where I now live, the LEOs in urban and suburban areas have been against it and continue to oppose it. the rural guys are supposed to be tolerant of it.
My wife and I have passed the CHL course here in Texas and are applying for our permits. My wife recently asked a local LEO that we know if he knows any good pistol instructors in the area so that we could learn gun safety, care and maintenance, and marksmanship: he responded with, "I'd be glad to teach you!", so we're meeting with him this weekend. Obviously, he has no problem with citizens having CHL's.
The recent demonizing of concealed carry and guns in general has the effect of polarizing public opinion towards the negative. The police are like anyone-they,too,can be influenced by public opinions. Its our job to constantly counter the seemingly endless attacks on CCW and firearms by the Shumars,the Fiensteins the Clinton-Gore-Bradleys, HCI,Center to prevent violence,etc etc. The liberal talking heads. We need to be vocal in our support for CCW to our friends,familys and acquaintances,letting them know theres always TWO sides to a argument,which gets knocked out of wack by the constant media stream of negative opinions.
TEXAS LAWMAN
New member
Been a cop for about 15 years in 2 states. Been around cops even longer (Dad was a university police chief and dad-in-law was a city officer). Kaving spoken to hundreds of cops of all types, I can recall only 5 or 6 who really disliked idea of 'plain citizens' carrying guns. Most cops are neutral or just flat don't give a rip either way. More cops seem to enthusiastically support CCW carry than oppose it. Just my $.02
Mike in VA
New member
FWIW, among my neighbors is a Secret Service Agent (very senior guy), retired Fairfax County Deputy Sheriff and and an FBI agent. All are very pro-CCW and 2nd Amendment. The last time I was stopped for motoring briskly (nothing blatantly stupid or requiring a pilot's license), I handed the officer my DL & CCW. He asked what I had, I said a SIG, he replied he had a SIG, too (VA St Police carry 229's in .357 SIG). He said slow down, we talked guns a few minutes, and that was that. So far, so good.
M2
M2
I am a state trooper in west Texas and I personally know of only one troop on our force that has voiced pointed opposition to CHLs and he was from the eastern half of the state. In addition I know of no officer within a hundred mile radius that is employed by any city, county or state agency who has any problem with the concept or practice. In fact, we do not get too worked up with anyone carrying a handgun in a vehicle as long as they do not have a criminal record. However, it is quite a different situation in metropolitan areas of Texas due to the influx of citizens (and officers, mostly younger) originally from more "gunphobia" areas of the United States.
Both my in-laws, my sister-in-law and my wife have CHLs and I encourage any law abiding citizen who realizes their personal safety responsibilites to obtain one. I only wish that some gun-carrying samartian had been present at the Wedgewood Baptist Church last Wednesday night.
Take care and God bless to all,
Paladin
Both my in-laws, my sister-in-law and my wife have CHLs and I encourage any law abiding citizen who realizes their personal safety responsibilites to obtain one. I only wish that some gun-carrying samartian had been present at the Wedgewood Baptist Church last Wednesday night.
Take care and God bless to all,
Paladin
My two cents worth-
Those of us that have policed rough jurisdictions and see the need to carry while off-duty are pro CCW; on the other hand, those cops that police relatively crime-free jurisdictions and never carry while off-duty don't see the need for CCW/armed citizens. I believe in a citizen's right to equip themselves for self-preservation. On the whole, I believe most line cops either don't have an opinion or are in favor of CCWs.
Those of us that have policed rough jurisdictions and see the need to carry while off-duty are pro CCW; on the other hand, those cops that police relatively crime-free jurisdictions and never carry while off-duty don't see the need for CCW/armed citizens. I believe in a citizen's right to equip themselves for self-preservation. On the whole, I believe most line cops either don't have an opinion or are in favor of CCWs.
I was involved in a traffic incident almost two years ago on I-75 outside of Gainesville, FL. The first officer to respond was an Alachua co. deputy. I gave him my DL and CCWL and told him I had a handgun in my pocket. No problem. As it technically wasn't his jurisdiction an FHP trooper showed up (he bore an UNCANNY resemblance to Shaquille O'Neill!). I repeated the same spiel to him. He too, didn't bat an eye. Neither asked me to surrender the weapon or even put it in the car. Cool.
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