Cav arms raided?

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ISC

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(taken from an arfcom post I am not the writer):

The details of what actually is happening are becoming more confused with every subsequent post here.

In Late 2002/Early 2003 we had a compliance inspection. At that time our ATF inspector saw the manufacturing process start to finish, including the mold being run off site. At that time the then inspector believed that the two halves were not a firearm until welded together at our licensed location and had no issues with the manufacturing process.

In July of 2006 we had another compliance inspection. At that time the inspector submitted the two halves of the receiver to Firearms Technology Branch. Firearms Technology Branch determined the two halves were a gun as soon as they were in the same location because someone could tape them together and make a firearm that fired at least one round. Our local compliance inspector then told us we could not injection mold the receivers off site, unless one of our staff was present. We had this in writing from her as a memo. All Vibration welding and Drilling operations are performed at our licensed location.

February 2008 Raid happens, all ATF correspondence at our shop is taken. We still have a license to make firearms. Shawn goes to the injection molding shop to start running receivers that were already scheduled prior to the raid. ATF shows up to watch. The Plastics Shop asks if they should stop Shawn from running the mold, The ATF agents say no, they are waiting for the final word. They wait several hours as Shawn sets up the mold dials in the processes until he runs the first several test parts that were not fully formed and were going to be ground up. They then tell him he has just illegally manufactured receivers off-site of the licensed location. Shawn tells them he had a letter from our local inspector saying it was ok…they respond with “That was wrong”

Here are the options we are exploring

1) Running only ½ of the mold at a time so there is never a right and left half in the same location off site. The part of the mold that makes the other half would never be present while the other is being run. Each half constitutes less than an 80% receiver. We are waiting for Firearms Technology Branch to rule on this. The timeline for when we are told to expect a ruling keeps getting dragged out.
2) Getting an injection molding machine moved to our shop to run the receivers. This is a much more expensive option. We are looking for molding machines locally to have moved here for a week or two.

That’s where we’re at…we have two options to make receivers happen and we are going at it from both angles.
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Sounds like entrapment to me, one of the techs asked the ATF agent, "Is this cool?" the Agent says "Yeah sure, go ahead." Then the agent sits, watches the guy run the equipment before saying "hey, what you just did was illegal."

WTF?

I also find it highly disturbing that they hijacked all your correspondences with the BATFE offices from your office. Maybe my tinfoil hat is on too tight, but that sounds rather disturbing on my end. Hope they don't suddenly dissappear when your lawyer needs them.

I really hope everything straightens up for all of you.

They siezed all the guns because of a question concerning the offsite manufacturing facility? WTF, yet once more. Why couldn't they send you a letter saying "You must cease and desist current production at this site until you come in compliance with (Code, law, or regulation) #XZY."
 
I'm waiting for someone to say that the BATF and federal prosecuters never lie or mistate the facts, therefore Cav Arms needs to be permanently shut down for the sake of public safety.
 
They siezed all the guns because of a question concerning the offsite manufacturing facility? WTF, yet once more. Why couldn't they send you a letter saying "You must cease and desist current production at this site until you come in compliance with (Code, law, or regulation) #XZY."
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I think you might be confusing the ATF with other law enforcement ogranizations that are concerned with getting people to comply with the law.

There's a ridiculous amount of silliness emminating from the ATF. The only way I can rationalize it is that there must be opposing factions within the agency. Some must try to enforce the laws as written fairly reasonably. Others must like screwing around, making up arbitrary rulings to release to FFL holders, and making arrests or shutting down FFLs wherever possible.

It's simply not possible that so much comedy and horror could come from one agency with competent (and unified) leadership.
 
The TRUTH is that there are a lot of ignorant buffoons working for BATFE. An inquiry was made in my state to a local BATFE office, then the regional office, as to whether a governmental agency could transfer a pre-86 machine gun to a private citizen, via Form 5. Every agent answered authoritatively, "No!" None knew what he/she was talking about. National NFA division sent letter stating that such a transfer is perfectly legal and routine...and that no transfer taxes are due.

What happened to Cav arms is a total disgrace. Heads should roll at BATFE.
 
more info

Of course the ATF apologists will see this as more lies

http://waronguns.blogspot.com/2008/05/statement-of-cavalry-arms.html

Thursday, May 01, 2008
Statement of Cavalry Arms
From Shawn Nealon
Cavalry Arms Corp:

For those of you sending out moral support, we very much appreciate it. This is what our 3 different Attorneys all agreed is safe to post....

"For many years Cavalry Arms Corporation (“Cavalry”) has strived to manufacture and sell quality firearms to the public. We have always strived to put our experience from the field into making quality products that the average shooter can afford, while still bringing innovations to the industry. We are dedicated to providing the best possible products and customer service to the firearms market.

On February 27, 2008, agents of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives executed a federal search warrant on the business premises of Cavalry and on the private residence of its CEO, Shawn Nealon. We have immediately engaged legal counsel to resolve this matter with the federal government. Cavalry is confident that all it conduct has been lawful in carrying out its business activities. The Government has yet to share with the company details of the investigation or the cause precipitating the search warrant. Cavalry is cooperating with the federal investigation. To date no accusations of wrongdoing have been filed against Cavalry or any of its employees regarding alleged illegal activity.

While we are waiting for a resolution to this situation, Cavalry Arms will remain open for business and continue firearms operations under its Manufacturer’s FFL. Unfortunately, the federal government seized business files, computers, and inventory from Cavalry during the execution of the search warrant. As a result, Cavalry has been forced to reconstitute its resources, and we expect to be fully operational in the near future. In the meantime, we still carry firearm parts and emergency medical products for sale. We appreciate your patience, and we thank everyone who has shown us support during this turbulent time."
 
Wild Alaska,
That was what it seemed like from the context of your statement, especially in light of the disdain and assumption of guilt that you show toward anyone charged with anything on every thread I've seen you respond to here. That's why I asked for clarification. I would still be interested in seeing what you meant by it.
 
With WA, you have to read between the lines.....so to speak......

If CavArms were guilty, they'd be throwing every hot-button statement ("racist", "sexist", "anti-gun", "homophobe", "against little people", etc.) they could to defend themselves. But they're doing the opposite....doing what their obviously smart attorneys have recommended and keeping their cards close to the vest. If anything, they're innocent AND smart.....

....and I agree with WA on this too.....

seekerthatshowthegameisplayedtwo

:D
 
That was what it seemed like from the context of your statement, especially in light of the disdain and assumption of guilt that you show toward anyone charged with anything on every thread I've seen you respond to here. That's why I asked for clarification. I would still be interested in seeing what you meant by it.
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OK..let me help you

Statement 1

"They have smart attorneys."

A compliment to their counsel, who provide a mature, reasoned statement in the face of a serious matter. You will note of course, in that statement, that there is no badmouthing of the BATFE or the government.

Statement 2

"The volume of screeching is louder from wrongdoers"

Having spent years in the criminal justice system, and having watched high profile cases develop, and having been a net surfer since there was the net, I think we can all take judicial notice of the "methinks he doth protest too much" factor involved in criminal justice interactions. Those who whip up a frenzy in most (not all) cases do so because they have nothing else. In some, but not all cases, that screeching comes from the radical left who views the government as persecuting folks for political reasons...in other cases, but not all, that screeching comes from the radical right, who views the government as persecuting folks for political reasons. In my experience and opinion, those who screech the loudest are usual the most guilty of something.

Now lets parse my statement....

The volume of screeching

See above

Is louder from wrongdoers.


Since I have complimented the attorneys, and used the term "louder" (which is a comparative term, indicating that the attorneys statement is not loud) and indicated that lounderness (nice word huh) comes from "wrongdoers" it follows that I am not claiming that Cavalry Arms is guilty (or not guilty) of anything.

As to your other point about my "disdain" I won't dignify it by a comment.

firesmallmindedpeoplearescarymax
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I agree...where do you place yourself?

WildanotherallmightygunnykinsthreadAlaska ™
 
Quote from FireMax:
wildalaska
The volume of screeching is louder from wrongdoers.
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Sorry, but someone has to say it.... that is a stupid statement.

firesmallmindedpeoplearescarymax
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Quote from ISC:
Wild Alaska,
That was what it seemed like from the context of your statement, especially in light of the disdain and assumption of guilt that you show toward anyone charged with anything on every thread I've seen you respond to here. That's why I asked for clarification. I would still be interested in seeing what you meant by it.
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I know what you're saying there. Wild does project the idea of an ultra just world that's kind of hard to fathom. It is like the exact opposite of paranoid. Most of us don't know that world, Wild lives in it.

No offense, Wild, it's just sometimes I wish I could be that optimistic. You're not scared by the writings of Pynchon but you can't deal with the idea that politicians sometimes have their enemies killed. I still can't figure it out. It's like history never happened, or the USA was touched by faeries or something. I guess I can't fault you for sincere beliefs, that's what they look like anyway.

As for Cav Arms, it probably doesn't do any good to badmouth the agency that has a person's future in its hands, so I'll agree with WA's statement there. It's just that some of us find it a little scary that the .gov can come along and take away everything you might use in court for your defense. It's even scarier when the person didn't know they were breaking some administrative law.
 
No offense, Wild, it's just sometimes I wish I could be that optimistic.
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I wish you could be too...just keep an open mind :)

You're not scared by the writings of Pynchon
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I'd love to have a Pyunchon discussion as it relates to government and "paranoia" but the mods would probably cut that off :)

you can't deal with the idea that politicians sometimes have their enemies killed.
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Now lets talk about that...are you referring to actual cases of political murder such as Tresca or Chicago bomb politics or made up tinfoil murders? I acknowledge the former (obviously) and look askance at the latter (Vince Foster).....

So what makes you say I deny the fact of political murder?

It's just that some of us find it a little scary that the .gov can come along and take away everything you might use in court for your defense.
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Are you saying that once the government takes something away, it is unavailable to use in your defense? And is that the case with Cavalry Arms?

The system is not always right, not always wrong. The guilty get away, the innocent get convicted. Thats the fact of life. Got something better?

As Bruxley what he thinks of the Court system. Not the police or prosecutor, but the Court.

I don't live in a fairy world. I just look at things realistically.


WildigotcleanedoutofblackgunstodaymustbetheairAlaska ™
 
Time for a new game
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Isnt that a judgement to be made by Cavalry Arm's attorneys?

Oh wait I get it. BATFE seizes guns, so automatically it's time for revolution?

Love the open minds

WildyougotanyfactstobackupaclaimofimproperforfietureAlaska ™
 
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