Casting 38 special ans 357 mag

C

CastAmerican

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I plan to start casting in 38/357 and was hoping to use the same bullet for both. What bullet weight should I use that would be mid-range for both calibers? 150 grain seems heavy for 38, but average for 357 and 124 seems very light for 357. Should I just settle on using two different bullets? Any advice would be great.
Thanks
 
Thanks for the info! I'm new to reloading so when you mention 30:1, do you mean an alloy ration? And what about #2 for Mid++ to Mag? Again I'm new to casting, so sorry if it is a dumb question. Thanks again!
 
For the 357, 44 mag, 45-70 I really prefer clip on ww lead with about 2% tin added if possible but not needed and water quenched. BHN of around 18-23 depending on tin content. For plinking and lower velocities what Mehavey said. 158 for me with big me plat in front but each to his own preference. Don't let the 125 fool you in the 357. More velocity and shock.
 
CastAmerican, there are three alloy/hardness regimes that cover 98%* of all cast bullet needs

30:1 which for all intents/purposes is pure/soft lead with just a "smidgen" of tin to improve ease of mould fill-out. Use it for darn near all low to medium pressure cartridges to maximize the bullet being able "bump up" to fill the grooves upon firing at those pressures. Hardness ~ "6"

Common wheel weights (which if you can find the nowdays) used to contain a little tin/arsenic/antimony wound cast out -- air cooled -- to about 10-11. Very useful for mid+ pressures.

Lyman #2 alloy -- 5/5/90 tin/antimony/lead -- hardness '15' --which can/is used for mid+++ pressures all the way up to 20-22,00 psi as is, and 25-32,000 psi using gas checks. Very useful in the big magnums and hgh velocity (2,200 - 2,400 fps in rifles)

Check out RotoMetals and make it easy on yourself taking some guesswork out.

* WendyJ's use of wheelweights -- as-is (moderate soft) or water quenched (relatively very hard)-- serves well if you have a source.
 
158 grain is a good weight for both cartridges. I kinda like round nose flat point bullets, like the Lee 90692 (358-158-RF)
 
Pretty much any bullet from 125 to 158 will work. 158 is a good starting point and will work just fine for .38 Special. The Lee 140 grain SWC is a great option right in between the 2 different weights.
 
158 is excellent for both.

But 50 years ago, I started using Lyman 358429 in 170 grain SWC for both, and I've never looked back.
 
I have found that 158 grain bullets seem to line up with the sights on most guns of that caliber regardless of velocity out to 25 yards or so.
 
The 158 gr bullet is the "classic" weight for 38 Special and 357 Magnum. Probably the most popular is a SWC. Wheel Weight alloy is prolly the best all around hardness needed (I've used WW alloy in my Magnums for years and one bullet for my 357 was a Lachmiller 160 gr SWC over a max load of True Blue. Too hot, but didn't lead). IMO, the bullet to gun fit is more important than BHN. I have three bullets I use in my 35 cal revolvers, 125 gr RNFP from Lee, a Lyman 148 gr DEWC, and a Lachmiller 160 gr SWC.
Good read; http://www.lasc.us/castbulletnotes.htm
Excellent forum answers just about any question about lead bullets ever asked; http://castboolits.gunloads.com/
 
"...124 seems very light for 357..." The standard 'go-to' bullet weight for .357 is a 125 grain jacketed bullet.
"...150 grain seems heavy for 38..." The very long, long, time standard, Wad Cutter weight is 148 grains.
One or two grains in weight doesn't make any difference. As mentioned a cast 158 is a good bullet for both. You cannot use jacketed data for a cast bullet or the same data for both. You can use .38 Special data in a .357 case though.
Strongly suggest you buy a copy of the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook. And read the whole thing first.
 
Thank you all for all of the information. I am excited to start casting and am glad I asked all of you about it first!
So let me know if this sounds right. I will use 158 gr for both, 30:1 for 38, #2 for 357, and use data from the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook.
 
The standard 'go-to' bullet weight for .357 is a 125 grain jacketed bullet.
Click to expand...
That seems to be more true for self-defense than it may be for a .357 Magnum intending for hunting deer. In that case, I suspect a heavier cast bullet would likely be a better choice or at least more popular.

Nevertheless, the original poster did specify "midrange" use.
 
I agree; ,the "standard" for both, as I said above is a 158 gr bullet, whether lead, gas-checked, plated or jacketed.....
 
CastAmerican,

As has been said, 158gr bullets are where you want to be with .38 and .357 Magnum lead loads. Don't get caught up with "the bullets got to be hard" mentality. Just match your alloy to your intended velocity. The .38 caliber bullet on the right is quite soft (~8 BHN), and came out of my 2.5" Model 19 at 945fps. Let me know what type of lead you have (wheel weights, pipe, etc.) and I will glad help you with an alloy suitable for your intended purpose.

Don
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158-gr was the original bullet weight for both the .38 Special and the .357 Magnum so it is by no means too heavy for either one.

Realistically, though, anything in the 125 to 170 grain range will do very nicely in both the .357 and the .38.

I tend to shoot cast 125s in my .38s and mostly 158s in my .357s.
 
Not to disagree with anyone but I was under the impression the 357 Magnum was designed around a 140 lead bullet and the "standard" police load for the 38 Special was a 200 gr. RN??

I generally use 3 bullets in my 38/357 revolvers, a Lee 125 gr. RNFP, a Lyman 148 gr. DEWC, and a Lachmiller 160 gr. SWC, mostly cast in WW alloy BHN...
 
"Not to disagree with anyone but I was under the impression the 357 Magnum was designed around a 140 lead bullet"

Well... no. As originally conceived by Keith, Sharpe, and others, the .357 wasn't targeted at police but at sport shooters, such as hunters. Sharpe especially was interested in the sporting aspect.

As such, they tended towards heavier bullets, not lighter ones, and virtually all of the ammo manufacturers that loaded the round before WW II did so in 158-gr. loads.

It looks like Peters started carrying the .357 in the 1938-1939 range. The 1939 catalog shows 1 load -- 158-gr. lead bullet.

Remington also appears to have added the round in the same time frame and their 1938 catalog shows 1 loading... 158-gr.

Winchester introduced the round to market in 1934 or so, but I can't find any of their catalogs from that time frame to tell me exactly what loads they offered.

However, this page shows a VERY early box of Winchester .357 ammo, likely from 1934 or 1935, and it's loaded with 158-gr. lead bullets.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-hand-ejectors-1896-1961/76430-early-357-ammo.html

Other weight loadings MAY have been available early on from Winchester, but if anything, I'm sure that they would have been heavier loads suitable for hunting.

It wasn't until after WW II that lighter, high velocity loadings became available, targeted primarily at the police market and with metal piercing bullets.


"the "standard" police load for the 38 Special was a 200 gr. RN??"

No, it wasn't the "standard" police load. It was called the police load (in various names) and was brought out for police, but as originally developed by S&W and UMC in the late 1890s, the .38 Special was loaded with a 158-gr. bullet.

To the best of my knowledge, the 200-gr. police loading was first offered in the 1920s.
 
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