Case lube

[USSR]

Well, Don F, where to start.

I've been using One Shot over 30 yrs now and have never stuck a case.

First, how many bottleneck rifle cases do you resize a month? I was processing thousands each month for several years when I was under contract to supply fully processed brass for a guy with a Type 6 FFL. I had to be able to spray a bunch of brass in a plastic box, then roll them around and have them pick up the lube by rolling them around the box. That's how spray on lubes are designed to work. If you have to carefully spray completely around each and every brass case, you may as well use Imperial Sizing Die wax, or Hornady's version called Unique, as they are clearly superior, because they use lanolin.

I have tried Hornady wax and have a hard time telling if a case has enough lube or not; I suspect I'd find the same thing with Imperial lube.

How on earth could you have a hard time telling if a case has enough wax lube or not, you are applying it with your fingers?

I still have a bottle of Dillon and probably won't use it. Problem with it for me is it leaves a sticky feeling on the case's. Bet it works well though. One Shot spray,s on and if your not sure, shoot spray it again. Don't know how you couldn't be sure, you can see the spray going on. And sprayed from an angle over the case's it lubes inside the neck; oh, bet Dillon will do that too.

Don, sticky is good. Don't know of a lube worth it's salt that's not sticky. Got a M1 Garand? You've got to lube it, and guess what, it's "sticky". Oh, and here's a hint that eliminates the need to lube inside the neck - carbide expander ball. Oh, and that's not a lesson plan I memorized, but rather something that comes from experience.

Lot of people like to make their own, alcohol and lanolin! They say you can get it in a drug store I think it was and it's a lot cheaper than commercial lube. Gotta be kidding me! I can't imagine how inexpensive lubing is with one shot! How do you save money on lube? Some of these people are the same ones that say your scope should cost more than your rifle and about equipment, buy once and spend the money on the tools one time. Of lube's, how many case's do ypu think you could lube with a penny's worth? To expensive!

This tells me that you probably just reload a box or two of rifle cases a year. At that rate, and by carefully spraying each and every case from every possible angle, One Stuck will no doubt work for you, and a can will last you for many years. Personally, I have resized thousands of rifle cases (.308 and .30-06) with one 13 oz. spray bottle of lanolin/alcohol lube, which is an impossibility with one can of One Stuck. Oh, and count me in the camp for buying good scopes and tools. I've been called a lot of things, but cheap ain't one of 'em.

Don

 

[LBussy]

We often can look to legally required documentation to gain some insight to commercial products. Dillon case lube, according to the MSDS, is >95% Isopropyl Alcohol and <5% "surfactant" which is likely lanolin but we can't be sure. If it is lanolin, it suggests that we can go to a 19:1 ratio when mixing up a home-brewed case lube. That means 1 oz of lanolin to 16 oz of iso alcohol (16:1) is an easy and potentially effective ratio to use.

OneShot is <=75% n-Hexane and <=25% of a "proprietary mixture" according to the MSDS. We can't know what the proprietary mixture is without somehow having access to trade secrets but the Hexane is somewhat troubling. As much as a reloader would use it's likely not an issue with toxicity but it's something to be aware of. Spraying outside might be a good idea.

 

[Don Fischer]

I don't load thousands a year anymore. Probably down to close to a thousand bottle neck and handgun case's a year, maybe a bit less. Years ago I was doing about 5000 bottleneck case's a year.

How come I can't feel the unique on my finger's, don't know. I'll ask my doctor next time I go in. I not only can't feel it, I can't see it.

Maybe in this class your teaching, your teaching reloader's to load hundred's of thousand's case's a year, don't know. 100,000 case's a year divided by 365 come's out to 273.9 case's per DAY! I knew a commercial reloader while in Montana. The equipment he used ws not something you could get at Cabela's! If I remember right it was made by Pontess-Warren and was totally automatic. He turned it on and walked away!

Can't remember what you said you use for lube, that stuff you put on with your finger's? You do hundred's of thousand's of rounds a year lubing each case separately? The guy I new in Montana did everything with carbide dies, he didn't lube a thing!

 

[cdoc42]

When lubing cases, when do you inspect them for defects?

I first clean and lube the case mouth and neck with a compatible nylon bore brush dipped in dry graphite. I can easily see subtle neck cracks even as I hold 5 cases in one hand for this procedure. After doing all the cases (most often, no more than 100 at a session, despite loading 12 different calibers), I transfer them, 5-6 at a time, to a RCBS lube pad and spray either One Shot or the Lanolin/alcohol mixture across the top side and roll them back and forth quickly, 2-3 times. Slide them onto the top lid of the pad and start over. I can do 100 cases in 10-12 minutes. I then resize, measure all and trim those needed, then toss into the tumbler with plain corn cob media for 20 minutes to an hour, depending on how much of a hurry I'm in. I assume the majority of handloaders process cases in this magnitude. When I first started 40 years ago I lubed one at a time with my fingers and a RCBS lube, often dented the shoulder due to excess application, then cleaned every one with a rag and carburetor cleaner until I looked for some way to avoid killing my liver and lungs, which is how I ended up with One Shot and the process described above.

 

[Don Fischer]

Had to look up the basic reloader course by the NRA. What I found was the basic course runs about 8 hour's, one day course.

 

[Unclenick]

If you can locate a European MSDS sheets for the same product, they typically have more information as their forms of government are not influenced by lobbying like ours is. As a result, they don't always allow "proprietary" hiding of constituents.

A surfactant is something that lowers the surface tension of liquids. Soaps and detergents are surfactants, so maybe the Dillon lube is some kind of soap. I've seen a number of people describe using dishwashing liquid for lube so they can just rinse it off. Lanolin, however, is not a surfactant. It is an oily wax secreted by the sebaceous (skin oil) glands of sheep and other wooly animals. It would require the addition of a surfactant to make it soluble in water. So if there is any lanolin in the Dillon formula, it depends on the surfactant to be able to dissolve well in the alcohol, but from the MSDS, I am guess there isn't any.

One thing I've tried is diluting Lee case lube in about twenty parts 70% alcohol and pump spraying it on cases. After it dries (I usually leave it overnight, but it doesn't need that much time) I apply a spray case lube (One Shot or even some of the old Midway store brand I still have around seems to work fine like this). I give the second spray an hour or so to dry. It's not critical. The dried layer of Lee lube is insurance, and I've never had a case stick if done this way. But it is for larger batches planned ahead. For smaller batches or doing just a few, I use Unique most often these days.

 

[80viking]

I have been using Dillon case lube with excellent results since the early 90's. It is an alcohol/lanolin formula and comes in great pump dispenser. I use it for everything from .223 to the .458 win mag, and that's thousands and thousands of .223's.
I am waiting for some Hornaday one shot to be delivered. I want to try it on pistol cases with a carbide size die on an rl550 w/a case feeder. It is supposed to make things a lot smoother and speed things up as well. The best part is that you don't have to remove the lube to shoot the ammo.

 

[LBussy]

ef:

If you can locate a European MSDS sheets for the same product, they typically have more information as their forms of government are not influenced by lobbying like ours is. As a result, they don't always allow "proprietary" hiding of constituents.

I did search for a better MSDS but that was as good as I could get. I'm not sure how to get a European MSDS.

A surfactant is something that lowers the surface tension of liquids. Soaps and detergents are surfactants, so maybe the Dillon lube is some kind of soap. I've seen a number of people describe using dishwashing liquid for lube so they can just rinse it off. Lanolin, however, is not a surfactant.

Lanolin is apparently considered a surfactant:

Some characteristics of wool wax that make it so valuable may complicate the process of refining. For example, the powerful surfactant activity makes the purification process difficult.

Ref: Badal, S., & Delgoda, R. (2017). Pharmacognosy: fundamentals, applications and strategy. Amsterdam; Boston; Heidelberg; London; New York: Academic Press is an imprint of Elsevier.

I didn't know it was a surfactant myself, but there you go. That doesn't mean that lanolin is the magic ingredient, just that it could be.

I don't have any more Dillon case lube. Perhaps we can get someone who has some on-hand to pour a little into an excess of water and see how it behaves?

 

[USSR]

Maybe in this class your teaching, your teaching reloader's to load hundred's of thousand's case's a year, don't know. 100,000 case's a year divided by 365 come's out to 273.9 case's per DAY!

LOL, no, this is a Basic Metallic Cartridge Reloading course, so teaching the very basics on a single stage press.

Can't remember what you said you use for lube, that stuff you put on with your finger's? You do hundred's of thousand's of rounds a year lubing each case separately? The guy I new in Montana did everything with carbide dies, he didn't lube a thing!

I said: "I had to be able to spray a bunch of brass in a plastic box, then roll them around and have them pick up the lube by rolling them around the box. That's how spray on lubes are designed to work". In my class, on the other hand, we use Imperial Sizing Die Wax which is applied with the fingers. Yeah, I think you can buy carbide resizing dies for bottleneck rifle cartridges, but plan on taking out a 2nd mortgage on the house.

Don

 

[USSR]

I have been using Dillon case lube with excellent results since the early 90's. It is an alcohol/lanolin formula and comes in great pump dispenser. I use it for everything from .223 to the .458 win mag, and that's thousands and thousands of .223's.
I am waiting for some Hornaday one shot to be delivered. I want to try it on pistol cases with a carbide size die on an rl550 w/a case feeder. It is supposed to make things a lot smoother and speed things up as well. The best part is that you don't have to remove the lube to shoot the ammo.

Thanks for the feedback on the Dillon case lube. I use Hornady One Stuck on my pistol cases with my carbide dies as well, and yes, not having to remove the lube is an advantage.

Don

 

[Unclenick]

LBussy,

That's a new one on me, too. I did some looking, and apparently, it is a non-ionic surfactant, so I stand corrected.

It did occur to me, after my last post, that perhaps we could cook lanolin in water and lye and make a soap from it that would be a surfactant and a grease, but it turns out there are lots of non-ionic surfactants that are fat based and that would be an unnecessary step.


USSR,

That's another app where the Lee lube spray would work. Since it dries completely, you don't need to rinse it off, either.

 

[Whistlebritches]

Are any animals partial to the bacon scented brass? Lol

Coyotes........just make sure you're upwind

 

[LBussy]

It did occur to me, after my last post, that perhaps we could cook lanolin in water and lye and make a soap from it that would be a surfactant and a grease, but it turns out there are lots of non-ionic surfactants that are fat based and that would be an unnecessary step.

Lanolin is 97% waxes and that remaining three percent comprised of lanolic acid and various alcohols and other hydrocarbons. That's significant because it's the fatty acid which can be hydrolyzed into soap (reacted with lye). All that means there's not a lot of soap to be made from lanolin. You'd have real greasy soap basically - or more like semi-soapy grease. Anyway, lanolin is used by soap makers when they want it's qualities to survive more or less intact into the finished product (I make soaps).

Now, that's regular lanolin. I have no idea what the difference is between liquid and regular lanolin. Some literature implies that liquid is anhydrous, but not all anhydrous lanolin is a liquid. The MSDS is not much help either.

Anyhow, I'm far afield from the original intent - that being to prove or disprove that Dillon Case Lube is lanolin-based. When I pour a small amount of the home-brew case lube into cold water I get a milky separation migrating to the top of the container immediately, with an oily film. When stirred, the entire container goes milky. When allowed to sit (for about an hour) the milkiness does not go away however the oily slick comes back. Not much but it's there. I would not have expected to see much there anyway. I used about a teaspoon in a cup of cold water. That leaves maybe a drop of lanolin in it. If someone were to recreate that with the Dillon lube we would know more.

A little crazy? Maybe. I'm stir-crazy for sure. All of my ammo is loaded and it's too cold outside to do anything else.

 

[mikld]

If I was paying for a class I'd consider myself as paying for the instructor's experience as well. Otherwise, anyone that could memorize a lesson plan could teach - and that's simply not optimal.

Just FYI: If you Google "OneShot stuck case" you get about 349,000 results. Granted not all are negative stories, but the majority certainly are.

Personal experience is one thing, but as you can see from the replies, it is not a popular opinion as many have successfully used One Shot. Teaching should be "generic" and if the instructor didn't like a particular product associated with the subject, he should make it very clear that his dislike is a personal opinion only. I've sat in on classes with an instructor that skewed the lessons with personal opinion (some I knew from experience were questionable) and I felt his ego got in the way of any learning...

 

[LBussy]

Personal experience is one thing, but as you can see from the replies, it is not a popular opinion as many have successfully used One Shot. Teaching should be "generic" and if the instructor didn't like a particular product associated with the subject, he should make it very clear that his dislike is a personal opinion only. I've sat in on classes with an instructor that skewed the lessons with personal opinion (some I knew from experience were questionable) and I felt his ego got in the way of any learning...

First, if you search this site you will see there are approximately 122K results containing "OneShot" and "stuck case". The same caveat applies as before, not all are negative, but there are a metric crapton of negative posts. On the Internet, any time someone posts a position, you can expect someone (or a group of someones) to post a contrary position. The one does not negate the other.

Just because someone has not had their "yet" yet does not make OneShot a superior product. If a product causes more people to have issues than another, the facts support communicating a negative impression of the product. If a drug causes deaths in 50% of the population, the living 50% doesn't argue that the drug is fine. Shrug and say "it's never happened to me" and consider yourself among the lucky I guess, but OneShot is mentioned a lot when it comes to stuck cases. That's a fact, not an opinion. A person with stellar process may never have an issue, but I'd prefer to have some margin of error for my work.

Second, let's not make a mistake and shoot the messenger. Unless one of us has taken USSR's class personally, we don't know the value of his advice in the context of his class nor how it was delivered. Yes, there are people out there who "teach" using nothing but opinion and rhetoric, but we simply do not know one way or the other. Let's not hang the man because he has an opinion. We don't know how that opinion is presented in class and he may well make that distinction between fact and opinion. As I stated, I'd prefer to have someone's experience as much as their book knowledge. That's why we are all here, right? We own the books and can read them solo; we discuss experiences here (like gentlemen hopefully.)

 

[F. Guffey]

Am I the only one?

You could be, I use a 'no name' lube, that stuff is as slick as okra, when the going gets tuff I have a lot of trouble making Imperial and Dillon look good. Why do use the other stuff? I work with other reloaders that are so opinionated they will not use anything else but Imperial and Dillon; when they get into a bind they call and ask for help with the understanding If I decide to help I will not bring my 'no name lube'.

Many years ago I purchased a box of RCBS case lube, I still use it but time has taken its toll on the plastic bottles, to cut down on the slow ooze I replaced the bottles with medicine bottles.

F. Guffey

 

[Metal god]

I've used both Oneshot and the Lanolin mixture . I use a single stage press for all bottle neck cases that are lubed with both products . The only reason IMHO I've not actually stuck a case using Oneshot is I could tell it was going to get stuck about half way through the stroke . I stopped and with some force have always been able to get the case back out . I've only had that happen once with the lanolin mixture and that was because I was trying to see how few sprays it took to lube 500 308 cases . Two was not enough , although most were actually lubed good enough with two sprays I've now went to 2 , shake the tub then 2 more then shake again and that same method does 800 223 cases as well as 500 308 cases .

One shot may work but it does not compare period . Just because it works does not mean it's better or even good . I used the Lee hand case trimmer for a year+ and thought it was a "good" trimmer before getting my Lyman trimmer . After using a far better trimmer I now consider the Lee trimmer junk . Yes it works but C-mon it's really not that good . The Yugo worked but .......

If I had been using a progressive press and could not feel the cases about to get stuck like I can on my single stage . I would have stuck many cases using Oneshot .

 

[USSR]

Quote:
Originally Posted by LBussy View Post
If I was paying for a class I'd consider myself as paying for the instructor's experience as well. Otherwise, anyone that could memorize a lesson plan could teach - and that's simply not optimal.

Just FYI: If you Google "OneShot stuck case" you get about 349,000 results. Granted not all are negative stories, but the majority certainly are.

Personal experience is one thing, but as you can see from the replies, it is not a popular opinion as many have successfully used One Shot. Teaching should be "generic" and if the instructor didn't like a particular product associated with the subject, he should make it very clear that his dislike is a personal opinion only. I've sat in on classes with an instructor that skewed the lessons with personal opinion (some I knew from experience were questionable) and I felt his ego got in the way of any learning...

FWIW, mikld, whenever I give my personal experience/opinion about something in my class that is not in the NRA's curriculum, I identify it as such. In addition, there are a couple things in the NRA's curriculum that are just plain absurd. So, I teach what the NRA tells me to teach, then I tell them about reality. The one item that comes to mind is the NRA's insistance that like rifle cases, handgun cases need to be trimmed. Oh, there goes my darn experience and ego again.

Don

 

[Arbrn Rngr]

Agree with Wrought....bacon grease is better used in a recipe. Case lube just doesn't taste the same.....

Pound for pound, bacon grease is probably more expensive....ya'll seen the price of applewood smoked lately?!!

 

[Heavy Metal 1]

By far the best I have used is Lee lube mixed w/91% alcohol. I would put a handful of brass in a baggie, sprits once or twice and toss them around, set them out in the loading block to dry, then sized away. Slicker than snot on a doorknob. BUT it is water based (although I did not see that anywhere on the tube) and one must take the die apart and clean it after use otherwise the die can rust. I found that out the hard way. That irked me so I sent Lee an email about this because it says protects dies...etc. That is when I found out from them that it is water based. Taking a die apart is a PITA. I like to get my dies set and not fiddle with adjustments. It is too bad because the Lee stuff is such a great lube.