Case Head Separation in Mosin-Nagant.

But now we're so far off-topic, who cares.
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"Who cares", difficult jobs? Most difficult, helping someone that does not care.

There was something you said I thought was rather rude and or snarky. Then there are those that can not believe this thread is still going. To talk to someone at Hornady about the firing pin and primer it will be necessary to find someone that understands extractors and receiver designs.

I know, it sounds cute: "The firing pin strikes the primer and then everything takes off for the front of the chamber". Never has anyone mentioned the .7854rule. The .7854 rule applies to my firing pins, again, my firing pins are killers on primers.

About 5 years ago I sent a Model 70 Winchester back to Winchester, there was no one there that understood the chamber in the rifle I purchased had a large/ugly chamber. It was the ugliest I had ever seen, they suggested I shoot it more. And I ask: "How will shooting it more make the chamber smaller? I suggested they send me a set of dies that would fit their chamber, I need a large ungly set of dies, and they did not understand. I took the rifle to their warranty shop, someone I know. He said he was going to hone, polish and ream the chamber, to WHAT? a 300 Weatherby Mag? No, the chamber could not be cleaned up with the Weatherby die.

they sent the rifle back in a new box.

I decided I would start on the rifle again, problem, the extractor would not jump the rim of the case, Point? If the extractor jumps the rim there is no way the firing pins is going to drive the case forward to the shoulder of the chamber. I know, it sounds cute, the firing pin drives the bullet, case and powder forward to the shoulder of the chamber and then! the primer is crushed. I do not have time for the case to travel all the way to the front of the chamber before the primer goes off, I want things to get busy, I want it to start as soon as I pull the trigger.

F. Guffey
 
Gee, and I always thought the firing pin spring was so strong that it drove the bullet right out the barrel. Anyway, that is what I read on the Internet, and anything you read on the Internet has to be true.

Jim
 
James K.,

there's NO pressure exerted by the FP on the primer until the case has been driven forward in the chamber to take up the headspace "slack".
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tobnpr asked to be enlightened.

The M70 had been fired 120 times with new out of the box Federal GMammo, It shot like a shotgun, it shot patterns. The cases were almost impossible to size. I have forming dies for the 300 Win mag., I have small base dies for the 300 Win Mag., I have neck sizing dies for the 300 Win Mag., and then? I have full length sizing dies.

I started back on the Model 70, the push feed failed, I fixed that and now I am waiting for the water levels to fall.

A reloader should be able to determine if the shoulder formed or the case stretched between the case head and case body. When someone uses the cute little saying "The firing pin drives the case, powder and bullet forward to the shoulder of the chamber before the firing pin crushes the primer" I get the feeling they do not have a clue.

F. Guffey
 
This isn't helping Mo at all.

Mo- just keep on & dump your brass after 6 reloads at the most.
Should let you shoot what works otherwise for you in that old Mosin.

If you run across similar problems in your Savage, might be time to re-visit the issue.
Denis
 
This isn't helping Mo at all.

Mo- just keep on & dump your brass after 6 reloads at the most.
Should let you shoot what works otherwise for you in that old Mosin.

If you run across similar problems in your Savage, might be time to re-visit the issue.
Denis
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Agreed, not at all. :)

Roger that, will do, Denis. Thanks again.

I'm on reload #3 with my .22-250. I don't set up my dies with cam over (except my 7.5 Swiss). Just until the die touches the shell holder. That shouldn't be too much of a problem, should it?

Regards,

-Mo.
 
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That shouldn't be too much of a problem, should it?
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Just until the die touches the shell holder
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I have suggested reloaders relax, that is what I do, I relax.

There are yards and yards of space used on reloading forums that cover this issue, for me there is not one rule that covers everything when sizing a case. There is 'this saying': Fire a case then neck size it 4 times then start over by full length sizing. Not fare, after neck sizing the case 4 times the case has been fired 5 times, back to not fare. When I fire a case 5 times the case becomes more resistance to sizing meaning I have to screw the die further. WHY? Because my cases have more resistance to sizing than they had when the case was unfired and or after annealing.

Just until the die touches the shell holder
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I have adjusted the die off the shell holder by using a feeler gage. the difference? I measure the length of the case from the shoulder to the case head. If I find I do not obtain the target length I adjust the die down further, again, adjusting the die down further increases the presses ability to overcome the cases ability to resist sizing.

When the case whips one of my presses I get a 'tuffer' press. Then I relax, when the case whips my press it is time to start on new cases or it is time to anneal. Regardless, when the case whips one of my presses I want to know 'by how much'. When the case wins there is a gap that appears between the bottom of the die and top of the shell holder. I also have deviation gages that read thousandths on a dial indicator.

F. Guffey
 
Mo,
I adjust to touch the shellholder on standard stuff, handgun & rifle.
There are occasions when you might want to deviate & there are arguments for doing & not doing so.

Your Savage should conform to more consistent specs than the Mosin.
If you're not getting signs of excessive pressure or headspace, keep on with what you're doing there & see how the brass does in that rifle.
Denis
 
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