Case head expansion & ready to retire

[Unclenick]

You do seem to have a lot of variables in the mix. One thing I'll point out is that brass length growth above chamber size will occur during resizing because the die squeezes the case narrower, and the extra brass extrudes out as extra length. So, going into the die, first, a case gets narrower and longer from head to shoulder, and then after the shoulder makes contact with the die shoulder and you push the case in still further, it starts to shorten again until it gets back down to chamber size and then as you go further, one usually tries to shorten it another thousandth or two. When that is done, the resulting extra brass extrudes up into the neck, so this is when neck length increases and internal donuts form. And that's all in standard dies. The Forster Bushing Bump die is an exception that does not narrow the sides, leaving the case chamber-fat.

Regarding the photos, if you know the chamber is right, then we are back to the diameter of the brass being wider than the gauge, and it will scuff Dykem, Magic Marker, or whatever you might apply to a case to confirm this. If the brass that doesn't fit into the gauge will still chamber, it just isn't being narrowed enough by the resizing die to fit the gauge. Some gauges mimic both SAAMI minimum chamber diameters and headspace length, while others are loose on diameter and only gauge lengths. I don't have any cartridge gauges by Hornady and didn't locate them on their website to read about how they are made, so we'd have to call and ask.

The only other thing I can think of to check is case wall runout. A case significantly too thin on one side can become oval in cross-section due to the thinner part getting springy, and that's an issue you can check for with calipers.

One last thought regarding the primer pocket expansion: some brands of brass will have harder heads than others. You might consider going through a round of brass brand sampling as it becomes available.

 

[GeauxTide]

I measure case head after one reload and record. After 5 rifle and 7 pistol shots, I measure again.
Anything .005 over gets discarded. Only cartridge I load max is 7mmRM, so I measure case head every time.

 

[badmatrix]

I made it to the Range yesterday. Utilizing the no bump, median head space resizing described above, the four batches chambered and fired. The one round that failed the case gauge MISFIRED, but after recocking, was sent downrange.

I am processing almost 50 cases from yesterday. I annealed. I resized to 1.5470”. This time i made sure the cases were adequately lubed and most importantly i used dry case neck lube for a smooth stroke. Each case went into the case cage and each case had no expansion failures.

 

[Paul B.]

I have three rifles chambered to the .35 Whelen. The first was a Ruger M77RS, a few weeks later got into Remington M700 Classic and last but not least fell into someone's custom on a 98 Oberndorf Mauser The loading dies were close to compatible between the M700 and custom rifle but no way near usable with the Ruger which had problems from the get go. first shot at the ranges with 200 gr. Factory from the Ruger resulted in a split stock and almost a total case head separation. I had a Ramline stock laying around gathering dust for the Ruger so I put the rifle in it and went to the range to try to sight the gun in. BANG! Total case head separation. Discussed it with my gunsmith and after a chamber ast it was decided the problem was excess headspace. Gunsmith notified Ruger and was told they no longer service the tang safety models. Wonderful! What to do? First a grabbed 20 rounds of WW2 unfired and decapped milsurp 30-06 and converted them to .35 Whelen. Then I lubed and sized some 280 gr. Lyman bullets and seat them as such with the nose of the bullet to be engraved by the rifling with a load warm enough to fire form the brass for normal loading. Later as I acquired the other two .35 Whelen rifles I just bought new full lenght dies that I set up for each rifle.
The FL dies were all set up in the following manner. Maybe the OP could try setting up the way I did and see if it helps with his problems.


This is how I set up my sizing die for bottleneck cartridges.

1. Take a once fired factory round and blacken the neck and shoulders with a Magic Marker or Sharpee pen. Some people like to smoke the neck and shoulder, but I find the Magic Marker/Sharpee pen a bit better.

2. Carefully lubricate the case.

3. Loosen the lock ring on the sizing die and back off about two turns from when the die is set to touch the shell holder.

4. Size the case. Note where the marks are on the case and turn the die down about a half a turn and size again. Turn down some more, and resize again. What you are looking for is the marks on the blackening just touching the shoulder.

5. Clean the lube from the case and try it in the rifle. It may chamber just a bit on the snug side. If so, turn the die down ever so slightly, lube and size again. Wipe off the lube and try in the rifle. If it slides in as easily as a factory round, you should be good to go. If not, usually one more very slight adjustment should fix the problem.

6. Tighten the locking ring for the die and you're done. You have just set your sizing die up for a custom fit to your specific rifle, rather than a generic one size fits all guns.

Paul B.

 

[badmatrix]

I have three rifles chambered to the .35 Whelen. The first was a Ruger M77RS, a few weeks later got into Remington M700 Classic and last but not least fell into someone's custom on a 98 Oberndorf Mauser The loading dies were close to compatible between the M700 and custom rifle but no way near usable with the Ruger which had problems from the get go. first shot at the ranges with 200 gr. Factory from the Ruger resulted in a split stock and almost a total case head separation. I had a Ramline stock laying around gathering dust for the Ruger so I put the rifle in it and went to the range to try to sight the gun in. BANG! Total case head separation. Discussed it with my gunsmith and after a chamber ast it was decided the problem was excess headspace. Gunsmith notified Ruger and was told they no longer service the tang safety models. Wonderful! What to do? First a grabbed 20 rounds of WW2 unfired and decapped milsurp 30-06 and converted them to .35 Whelen. Then I lubed and sized some 280 gr. Lyman bullets and seat them as such with the nose of the bullet to be engraved by the rifling with a load warm enough to fire form the brass for normal loading. Later as I acquired the other two .35 Whelen rifles I just bought new full lenght dies that I set up for each rifle.
The FL dies were all set up in the following manner. Maybe the OP could try setting up the way I did and see if it helps with his problems.


This is how I set up my sizing die for bottleneck cartridges.

1. Take a once fired factory round and blacken the neck and shoulders with a Magic Marker or Sharpee pen. Some people like to smoke the neck and shoulder, but I find the Magic Marker/Sharpee pen a bit better.

2. Carefully lubricate the case.

3. Loosen the lock ring on the sizing die and back off about two turns from when the die is set to touch the shell holder.

4. Size the case. Note where the marks are on the case and turn the die down about a half a turn and size again. Turn down some more, and resize again. What you are looking for is the marks on the blackening just touching the shoulder.

5. Clean the lube from the case and try it in the rifle. It may chamber just a bit on the snug side. If so, turn the die down ever so slightly, lube and size again. Wipe off the lube and try in the rifle. If it slides in as easily as a factory round, you should be good to go. If not, usually one more very slight adjustment should fix the problem.

6. Tighten the locking ring for the die and you're done. You have just set your sizing die up for a custom fit to your specific rifle, rather than a generic one size fits all guns.

Paul B.

Very cool. J have another batch i can do tonight!

 

[Unclenick]

One issue with repeated sizing in steps is that most cases don't resize fully on one stroke. So, for example, if you had on, as Paul described, that is just on the snug size, if you ran it back into the die at the same unadjusted setting, it would come down in size a little. Indeed, if you run it in and hold it for three to five seconds, you can get as much as a couple thousandths of shortening. So, when you go through the adjustments as Paul described, be aware that a case that hasn't yet had any resizing done to it may come out slightly bigger than the initial test case, and you may find you need one more tweak for them.

Here is an old file I made that you can print out, cut out, and apply to the die or the press to see how far you are adjusting the die.

 

[georgehwbush]

totaldla: with a 223 bolt gun (of course i neck size for that) it is easy to get 15 cycles and 20 is not out of the question, and i do load close to max. for that gun.