Cartridge naming FAILs

U

Unlicensed Dremel

Moderator
There's so many, but I'll start off with what is likely the heavyweight champ of cartridge naming fails, and that is...

The 6.8 SPECIAL PURPOSE CARTRIDGE

"SPECIAL" purpose is *precisely* what it's NOT..... ya know, since it's entire raison d'etre is an ALL-purpose round for a LMG, rifle, and carbine combined, to ease logistics. The entire point is to be an all-purpose cartridge. A special purpose is something like a 4.6x30.

What else? I've got a few more.
 
I am particularly fond of my 7.62-'08 . It is my favorite wildcat for shot-out 7MM-'08 barrels that are rebored. I'm pretty sure it'll be become popular any day now.
 
Ever hear of the 7MM Express Remington?

Around 1980 Remington wanted to capitalize on the success of their 7MM Mag and rolled the 7MM Express out. I've seen very early rifles with 7MM-06 stamped on the barrel which possibly shows nobody had a clue at Remington in that decade. Then Remington quickly pulled the plug and renamed .280 Remington which has had modest success since then.
 
wil terry
I am particularly fond of my 7.62-'08 . It is my favorite wildcat for shot-out 7MM-'08 barrels that are rebored. I'm pretty sure it'll be become popular any day now.
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Now that's funny. It actually took me a second to figure that out.
 
Hey Colt46, the 7mm Express story is even better than that.

The .280 Remington was introduce originally in....

1957.

So, in fact, the .280 has been brought out TWICE.
 
Irwin, you are correct

It seems it was developed to give additional mystique to non bolt Remington's such as 740/760 offerings. I've heard that pressures were a bit lower than those offered by their chief rival- .270 winch.
 
The 404 Jeffery
NOTHING on the bullet OR the shell case measures .404"
The bullets are .423" in diameter.

Really a good cartridge and saying "404" rolls off the tongue nicely, but -----
Only some drunken Brit can explain the name.

I also agree with Unlicensed.
The SPC should have been the GPC General Purpose Cartridge.
 
"Only some drunken Brit can explain the name."

Actually, this sober American can explain it.

The British tended to name their cartridges not based on the rifle's bore diameter to the bottoms of the grooves, but the bore diameter across the lands.

In other words, the .404 Jeffrey rifle, with a groove diameter of either .418 (original drawings) or .423 (later), had a land diameter of roughly .404.

The .303 British?

Groove diameter of roughly .311=.312, and a land diameter of .303.

That system of nomenclature is actually a hold over from the days of muskets, in which the bore diameter was actual bore diameter, and the bullet was a bit smaller to account for fouling.
 
Sorry, but using the metric system would eliminate all of this. First major panic a few years ago had store owners trying to explain to new folks about 38 vs 380, 9mm versus every other one, 38 vs 357 and on and on.

Bullet diameter X case length eliminates that confusion
 
The WSM cartridges are very well designed rounds that perform great. But you are right the name is not really appropriate.

The 280, 7mm express, 7mm-06 fiasco has to be the biggest screw up in firearms history. Had the 280 come first, and been loaded to it's full potential from the start we would have probably never had the 270 or 30-06.

But it didn't come first. And although it's confusing name history certainly hurt sales, I don't think the final outcome would be much different. Since it came much later than the other rounds it never had a chance of major success. Just too close in performance to knock off 2 very successful and similar rounds even if it is very slightly better than either.

Sorry, but using the metric system would eliminate all of this.
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Would help, but if we had ANY standard system in America it would have done the same thing. Ever gun manufacturer just randomly chose a name. The old black powder guns had a good system. 30-30, 45-70, 38-55, all meant something. But after smokeless powder came out everything got crazy.
 
I think "short magnum" and "super short magnum" are oxymoronically stupid names.
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They do sound a bit foolish, but, "magnum", taken from the wine industry, actually just means "bigger than the standard bottle".

I can think of a number of cartridges that were not major commercial successes, but I don't think they failed because of their names.

The failed, either because they offered something no one at the time wanted (or not enough, anyway), or they failed because they didn't offer enough of a difference from what was currently on the market.

The change from muzzle loading to cartridge arms, and the later change to smokeless powder and jacketed bullets, and in handguns, from heel type to inside lubricated lead and then jacketed bullets has left us with a large number of calibers with names that do not closely match their current actual bore sizes.

And the practice of some using bore diameter and others using groove diameter further complicates things.
 
It's not that there is not a system of cartridge nomeclature, it is that there are several. You just have to learn them, which is hard to do one question at a time on the internet.

It is further complicated that the Internet Experts whose idea of expertise is the difference between "clip" and "magazine" don't know what the bore diameter is.

The Lazzeroni's sound odd because they are specified in millimeters of bullet/groove diameter, something seldom seen in other rounds.

Then there is the advertising department, whose labels have little connection to any dimension. Consider that the .218 Bee, .219 Zipper, .220 Swift, .221 Fireball, .222 Remington, .223 Remington, .224 Weatherby, and .225 Winchester ALL fire .224" bullets.
But the .22 Jet and the .22 Savage High Power don't.
 
Bullet diameter X case length eliminates that confusion
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Then you'll have other problems to deal with, like explaining the difference between 7.62x51mm (.308 Win) and 7.62x51mm Rimmed (.30-30 Win / .30 WCF) .... and the OTHER 7.62x51mm Rimmed (.307 Win). Don't forget to bring up the fact that 7.62x50mm Rimmed (.308 MX) is not to be confused with the x51s.
... And then go on to explain to the next customer that commercial ammo for 7.62x54mm Rimmed and 7.62x53mm Rimmed are exactly the same thing, because it's all loaded as 7.62x53mm Rimmed.

Yea, that eliminates confusion for the average Joe.... :rolleyes:




Then there is the advertising department, whose labels have little connection to any dimension. Consider that the .218 Bee, .219 Zipper...
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.218 Bee and .219 Zipper actually fall into the British convention of naming after bore diameter. Most .22 caliber centerfires use a bore diameter of 0.218-0.219". ;)
 
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A400 Fan said:
Bullet diameter X case length eliminates that confusion
FrankenMauser said:
Then you'll have other problems to deal with, like explaining the difference between 7.62x51mm (.308 Win) and 7.62x51mm Rimmed (.30-30 Win / .30 WCF) .... and the OTHER 7.62x51mm Rimmed (.307 Win). Don't forget to bring up the fact that 7.62x50mm Rimmed (.308 MX) is not to be confused with the x51s.
... And then go on to explain to the next customer that commercial ammo for 7.62x54mm Rimmed and 7.62x53mm Rimmed are exactly the same thing, because it's all loaded as 7.62x53mm Rimmed.
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Yeah, and let's not forget about:
  • 9x18mm Makarov (which is actually 9.2mm) vs. 9x18mm Ultra
  • 9x23mm Winchester vs. 9x23mm Largo (aka 9x23mm Bergmann-Bayard) vs. 9x23mm Steyr
  • The fact that 9x23mm Semi Rimmed (9x23SR) can refer to either .38ACP or .38 Super
  • The other 9x19mm pistol cartridge- 9mm Glisenti
;)
 
The first one I'll add here is the .32 H&R Magnum. Decent round, but it's name is train-wreck bad.

In the view of anyone who is familiar with handgun cartridge max pressures, calling this very mild round a "Magnum" is a farce. It is quite seriously a .32 Special if we follow along with handgun cartridge precedent. (although that would butt heads with a certain lever action rifle round...)

Furthermore, H&R made a slew of awfully cheap guns. "Robust" is not something they were often accused of being. They also went out of business not all that long after the birth of it's namesake cartridge.
 
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