Carrying While Intoxicated

His theory was the blood test would take long enough it would help eliminate your issues.

His theory is incorrect. The body burns alcohol at a constant rate, so a blood test results are simply adjusted for the amount of time that passes between the incident and the test. And, as far as I know, the time adjusted result is accepted as valid by the law & the courts.

refusal of the breathalyzer losing you your license is an administrative matter, dependent on the specific wording of the law in your state.

What refusal of the breathalyzer does do, is prevent false positives. Sometimes, combinations of certain foods, mouthwash, and a person's unique body chemistry will show a "positive" on a breathalyzer, WITHOUT the person drinking alcoholic beverages.

Years ago a lady I worked with had such a unique body chemistry that she would test positive for drinking (by breathalyzer) when she had not been drinking. The job required a security clearance, and she wound up getting suspended (for some time) while the union and security "duked it out" about whether or not she was guilty of "drinking on the job". It took a while, but verified medical testing (which the company had to pay for) did eventually prove her innocent, and she was reinstated, and compensated.

This condition was something she had been completely unaware of, until it became a problem. IF you are one of these rare people, (and you know it) I'd recommend getting notarized statements from doctor(s) stating you are, and keeping them with you at all times. Might not get you out of a drunk driving ticket, or stop a cop who decides you are impaired from taking you in, or taking your gun, but it can't hurt, and WILL be important in court, later. IF you haven't been drinking. If you have, well, then, forget it. ;)

What is most important is the language of the law. It's not a crime to drive if you've been drinking, its a crime to drive impaired, and while the setpoint in law is the standard for impairment, you can be impaired below that limit, people are different. That CAN matter. If you hit or exceed the legal limit, and are not actually "impaired" (and there are people like that, as well) it doesn't matter to the law. Over the limit is legally impaired, no matter what your physical reality is. And, of course, if you are under the influence of anything, your physical reality might not be what you THINK it is.

As I do not drink caffeine (ok maybe once in awhile) I could make an argument that those that do are impaired in both motor skills and neurological activity when compared to someone who does not.

You can make the argument all you wish, but since the world runs on coffee, or tea, I doubt you will get much traction with that particular argument. OF course, anything is possible, I suppose. Research the "Twinkie Defense".

If you're bouncing off the walls and speaking rapid gibberish, it doesn't really matter if it was coffee, sugar, crystal meth, jack Daniels, or the voices in your head, that put you there, you WILL be deemed "impaired". Might matter later in court, might not, but it absolutely won't change officer's response when they decide you are impaired.
 
Caffeine generally will effect your nerves.. so it will open up your groupings if that matters.

Honestly "impairment" could be taken very broadly.. what about prescription drugs? lot's of opportunity to remove people from their guns with that.

I agree guns/intoxication don't mix.. but frankly if someone wants to have a glass of wine or a beer with their meal while carrying Im not gonna raise a fuss.

The legal limit varies from state to state but they're almost always low numbers to start with.

It's the people who do not know when to stop that are the problem.

But I think states like mine where there is no legal limit.. and 0.01 could get you locked up that is ridiculous!
 
Are there any State or States that do not have Statutes regarding alcohol or intoxication limits while carrying a firearm?

That was the OP's original question. Not seeing too many answers on topic. Does anyone have any references to link to?
 
I just asked a Texas DPS Trooper who runs into this situation more often than he should.

If the CHL / LTC holder is over the limit but not driving she / he's going to jail for at least public intoxication. If he / she is driving, it's going to be a "No Bueno Day" for that person, as they're going to look everywhere for a reason to pile additional charges on.
 
Quote:
Are there any State or States that do not have Statutes regarding alcohol or intoxication limits while carrying a firearm?
That was the OP's original question. Not seeing too many answers on topic. Does anyone have any references to link to?

Here in PA I can't give you a link to a non-existent law
 
I somehow misread the op's question, thought they wanted the law in each state to compare.. well anyway....

I doubt there are any states that say it's ok to be wasted with a gun on your hip, and even if there is one that is silent on the presence of the gun I'd have a hard time believing there are any jurisdictions without a general public intoxication law.

At home I really doubt there is ever going to be a problem.. unless well.. there is a problem and the cops are called.

I found this article via google talking about Texas which seems to just say unless you're drunk it's ok. They do have a legal limit of .08 which im guessing is probably just what ever is already on the books for drunk driving or general public intoxication charge.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/03/michael-holderer/guns-alcohol-dont-mixexcept/
http://www.dps.texas.gov/RSD/CHL/faqs/index.htm
Article is old and says it's question #35 but it's been bumped to #46
§46.035, Texas Penal Code states that it is unlawful for an individual who is intoxicated to carry a handgun. It is important to note that the Penal Code defines “intoxicated” as not having the normal use of mental or physical faculties by reason of the introduction of alcohol, a controlled substance, a drug, a dangerous drug, a combination of two or more of those substances, or any other substance in the body; or having an alcohol concentration of .08 or more.

I imagine that's about as unrestricted as the op is gonna find.
 
JoeSixpack said:
I found this article via google talking about Texas which seems to just say unless you're drunk it's ok. They do have a legal limit of .08 which im guessing is probably just what ever is already on the books for drunk driving or general public intoxication charge.
You guessed correctly; the definition comes from § 49.01 "Intoxication and Alcoholic Beverage Offenses - Definitions"—in other words, yes, it's the DUI and PI statutes. However, § 49.01 starts with these words, my emphasis in boldface...
49.01. DEFINITIONS. In this chapter:
...so this definition technically applies ONLY to Chapter 49, and NOT to Chapter 46.

As I discussed earlier, the 0.08 limit is NOT found in the statutes regarding handgun carry (§ 46.035) nor in the generic definitions that apply throughout the entire Penal Code (§ 1.07). IMHO the DPS FAQ is misleading in this regard.

However, notice the way that § 49.01 and the DPS FAQ are worded...
...“intoxicated” [is defined] as not having the normal use of mental or physical faculties [and so and and so forth]; or having an alcohol concentration of .08 or more.
The word "or" is critical. IOW if one lacks "normal use of mental or physical faculties," one can be busted for being intoxicated even with a BAC of ZERO.

Thus, the direct response to the OP's question...
steve4102 said:
Are there any... States that do not have Statutes regarding... intoxication limits while carrying a firearm?
...I stand by my earlier answer that there is no clear statutory limit in Texas.

Discussion by an actual attorney can be found HERE. As author Walker Byington states:
Under 46.035... there is no ‘magic point’ at which you are legally intoxicated. If your mental or physical faculties are impaired, you could be considered intoxicated no matter how much you’ve had to drink! What on earth does that mean? We don’t really know either. Talk about a legal gray area! Basically, it may boil down to a police officer’s subjective opinion...
(To quote my standard disclaimer that I forgot to include earlier, I am not an attorney, nor do I play one on TV. ;))
 
I know this is a legal thread but can't we just use common sense...
ANY drinking and there is NO firearms. I don't care if I am going out for one beer there will be no firearm carried or handled. Laws or otherwise that is just prudent course of action.
 
44 AMP said:
There you go. Any amount of anything can be argued to have impaired your judgment. You might not have your motor skills be too impaired to operate a gun, or a car, or whatever, but your JUDGMENT is suspect.

People can exercise poor judgment, with or without alcohol/drugs but that has no effect on the circumstances leading up to a shooting, for example. If a particular defensive shooting is O.K. when the shooter is sober, then logically it should be just as O.K. when they are intoxicated. What the law says and the jury decides is another matter.


44 AMP said:
And, I don't see any real argument other than "no, I was not impaired", which go nowhere with a jury. Its just your word, and while it may be the truth, there's no way to prove it.

If there isn't a legal way to measure if a person is impaired to use a firearm, then you are not only asking the defendant to prove their innocence but also by an impossible (non-existent) standard.
 
This discussion is about "carrying" and drinking. What about if the gun is in the center console of the car? My understanding is that your car is considered an extension of your home, and here in Virginia you do not require a concealed carry permit for a loaded gun in the glove compartment or center console.

So if I have two drinks at a restaurant with dinner, my BAC would be 0.02 - far from intoxicated and not impaired. With a gun in my center console, would this be considered drinking while carrying? Personally I never drink while "carrying", but I do drink modestly when dining out and do keep a pistol in my car's center console.

BTW, in VA you may be in a bar while carrying concealed but may not have any alcohol to drink while there. If you carry open, however, in the same bar you are permitted to drink as there are no laws prohibiting it. Strange! There are laws, however, against being intoxicated while carrying anywhere outside your home and property.

Tom
 
In MI that "car is an extension of your home" thing does not fly as it does in some states at least down south. Not sure about other states.
 
Even without a law it may be difficult to show reasonable judgment if the use of self defense comes into play. If your judgment is impaired enough to affect your ability to drive is it still good enough to judge the intent or actions of another?
Either way it is never a good practice to carry under the influence.
 
ShootistPRS said:
Even without a law it may be difficult to show reasonable judgment if the use of self defense comes into play. If your judgment is impaired enough to affect your ability to drive is it still good enough to judge the intent or actions of another?
Either way it is never a good practice to carry under the influence.

I agree that it is a bad idea to drink alcohol while carrying. I just don't think that drinking alcohol in itself automatically makes your defensive shooting, bad :) Of course a jury may decide otherwise...
 
I know this is a legal thread but can't we just use common sense...
Quote:
ANY drinking and there is NO firearms. I don't care if I am going out for one beer there will be no firearm carried or handled. Laws or otherwise that is just prudent course of action.

Not everyone, (and I am one) agrees with that statement. I have no issue having a glass or two of red with my meal; others might and they should act accordingly.
 
I know that here in Ohio, you cant open carry if youre drinking and you typically cant conceal carry in a bar, so I dont really see it being an issue.
 
afaik ianal

when I lived in NV it was .10 to be to drunk to carry, .08 for driving.
At one point in time the driving was .10 as well, they fixed the driving to .08 due to drunk moms driving and against it all

I don't drink, so i never worry
 
I guess folks can argue the fine points of intoxication, impairment, etc., all they want, but carrying a firearm while your judgement is reduced is one of the stupidest things you can bet your vehicle, bank account, and status of citizenship on.
 
The OP's title to his post is "carry While Intoxicated"
While Intoxicated.
Intoxicated means having a toxic level of something in your body.The various states have various means to define "Intoxicated" but if you meet that definition,it would surprise me if any state tolerates carry,concealed or otherwise.
Someone suggested that two drinks with a meal would result in a BAC of .02.
Those are vague terms,and YMMV,but I believe your info is off.
Back when the standard was pretty much 0.1 %,the driver's test included questions about "How much can I drink and stay legal?" Times and standards have changed,but the guideline for 0.1 was 1 drink per hour..for most places,0.1 is old history,but if you eat fast,2 drinks with a meal will break it.
With the newer standard of .04 for impaired,one drink with a meal may be borderline,and two may very well get you to .08,especially if you have a generous bartender.
Two quick beers after work on a hot,thirsty day and you probably are over the .04 impaired line.More likely .06 to .08. That is "busted"

We can argue semantics and "Well,I feel just fine with x number of drinks"
Ok,knock yourself out! I'm not the law.

I get it that SOME folks want to know "Where do I become vulnerable?"

And of course,each state has rules which may vary.Many have very vague (seemingly) rules.
I have never studied law,I'm not a lawyer.Someone mentioned "Common Sense"

If I am involved in a SD shooting,I have to worry if my trigger is under 4 lbs.
I will have to make it through a criminal and a civil court. What will the jury sympathy be toward "The defendant had been drinking before his clouded judgement pulled the trigger and ended the like of young Geoffry,loved by all,looking forward to...."

It won't help you.
As I mentioned for Colorado,yes,a BAC of .04 (one beer) is criteria for impaired. No shooting required. Traffic stop and you are packing. Busted.
In Colorado,smelling beer,pot,etc,the Officer's discretion is sufficient. No 0.04 is necessary. (Pot and gun's? Feds call "Felony")
I suggest the vagueness is not wiggle room that the pistol packing impaired can use to advantage. More likely it is a broader net to catch you with.

My class advised avoiding the problem by making a choice,one or the other.

That will work.

You can do whatever makes you happy. Please do keep us posted on how your argument might workout in court if you choose to test your theory.
 
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Tom Servo said:
As far as I know, Georgia has no specific statute on the matter.

You are correct, but just to clarify...
OCGA 16-11-134 makes it illegal to discharge a firearm while under the influence unless it is in self defense (a good shoot is still a good shoot and a bad one is still a bad shoot.)
Its is defined as a misdemeanor of a high and aggravated nature the penalty for which is up to $5k and 12month in jail, or both.

Someone carrying while schnockered isn't illegal so long as he doesn't do anything stupid. If you do, then one hopes the wrath of the state will rightfully rain down upon him. Idiots will of course idiot, but a wise man keeps his imbibing to a minimum.
 
There are numerous BAC calculators online that take into account your age, gender, weight, number of drinks, type of drinks, and the consumption timeframe. Since they do not include food consumption I believe they assume no food with the drinking. For my age and weight, all of these calculators put my BAC between 0.02 and 0.03 for two standard drinks in one hour.

To hit the impaired level of 0.04 I would need to have three plus drinks in one hour, and in my experience I would indeed feel impaired and I would not drive. I therefore set my top limit to two drinks (usually one), with food over 1.5 hours if driving.

I never drink while carrying, but I do keep a pistol in my car's center console. I am not clear if this is considered "carrying" as in VA a concealed carry permit is not required for a car gun in the glove compartment or console, and the gun is not on my person. Nonetheless, since I do not drive impaired it should not matter.

Tom
 
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