carrying spare cylinders-dangerous ?
- Thread starter CaptainCrossman
- Start date
freedom475
New member
I carry mine capped and ready in pouch that I make.. The Rem58 can be shot and reloaded faster than any other single action...unless you have a speed loader for a top-break.
I consider loaded, uncapped cylinder as a very dangerous item...especially with a gun that belches flame and sparks everywhere with everyshot...
The only danger of having them capped is when removeing and loading the capped cylinder...if you drop it... this is a big problem on the range with concrete all around but not so big a risk on the prairie...probly don't need the fast reload on the range anyway.
I consider loaded, uncapped cylinder as a very dangerous item...especially with a gun that belches flame and sparks everywhere with everyshot...
The only danger of having them capped is when removeing and loading the capped cylinder...if you drop it... this is a big problem on the range with concrete all around but not so big a risk on the prairie...probly don't need the fast reload on the range anyway.
bedbugbilly
New member
There seems to be a lot of controversy over spare cylinders, pouches, etc.
I have studied the Civil War for over 50 years, read literally hundreds and hundreds of books, articles and first person accounts, etc. and I will state right up front that I am not an expert - if someone claims to know everything, sure enough, something comes along that will either prove them wrong or was not documented before. That said, I would like to make a few comments on the subject of "spare cylinders", etc.
To say they were not used cannot be done with any certainty. I too, had never seen a "spare cylinder pouch" before - either in photographs, in person (and I have been collecting Civil War artifacts for 50 years) and I would have doubted their use as well until recently when I had the opportunity to see a spare cylinder pouch that was stamped USN.
It was very similiar to some of the so called "replicas" that are being used by the reenactors except it was made in conjunction and part of (an extension) flap holster for a Colt Navy. I don't know if it was an experimental accouterment or if it ever was in production as it is the only one I have ever seen.
In regards to swapping cylinders in combat - one has to realize that the common soldier was not like most of the folks on this forum. They did not know how to "fine tune" their pistols and this work was left to the armorer or ordinance officer. Their job was to keep the arms "cobbled" up and working, usually under primitive work conditions in the field. Anyone who has been shot at before, knows the intense fear and the body's reaction.
Changing cylinders in the heat of battle - trying to get a sticky wedge out of a Colt that has been carried in damp or wet conditions, would be a major accomplishment for the best trained soldier or trooper. Time, years passing and each of us have contributed to the romantic idea of the soldiers fighting bravely and with disregard for life or limb. The fact is, they were scared beyond description while in battle.
A good presentation of this are the muskets salvaged off the battlefield at Gettysburg after the battle - approximately 25% had more than one load in the barrel. The soldier would pull the tail of the paper cartridge off with his teeth, pour the powder in the barrel, ram the minie ball home and FORGET to put the cap on the nipple. Guns were found that had more than 25 loads in the barrel.
Combustible cartridges for revolvers were in use as were paper wrapped cartridges for the muskets, whether they be .54, .58 or .69 cal. or even larger in some of the imported European muskets. The various carbines, whether they be Smith, Sharps, Spencer, Burnside, etc. all had their individually issued cartridges.
Getting back to the so-called "common practice" of using multiple cylinders, I'm not saying it was not done, but, I question the wide spread use of spare cylinder pouches and spare cylinders. I myself, would like to hear from those that claim it was widely used, what their documentation is and I also would like to see some photos of original cylinder pouches, who they were manufactured by, etc.
We have plenty of original cartridge boxes and cap boxes in existence - both military issue, experimental and prototypes that are in existence and that can be studied. While I have seen the one USN spare cylinder pouch that was original, I have yet to see any in the various museums that I have visited, the private collections that I have had an opportunity to view or for sale on the collector's market.
So many tales and legends get started and while we all appreciate the "lore" of the Civil War and the Old West, it is often blown out of proportion and repeated as fact. I used to shoot full size Civil War Artillery in a NSSA group and I reenacted a couple of years in an artillery battery as well. I can remember a number of times when those portraying artillerymen would show up on the field armed to the teeth with an artillery saber and one or two pistols. The reality of it is that the run of the mill artilleryman (private) was not issued a pistol and the artillery saber they were issued usually ended up along the side of the road in a ditch as it was useless to someone riding on a caisson with their arms interlocked with a comrade's as they bounced down the road. The job of the artilleryman was to "serve his piece" - at all times. It is true that many of them carried belt knives - but these were not for fighting, they were for cutting the harness on the dead or wounded horse in the teams pulling their guns and caissons.
I don't really mean to "ruffle" anyone's feathers here and that is not my intention. I am just stating that it would be nice to see some documentation to back up the use of spare cylinders, spare cylinder pouches, etc. and perhaps have some original photographs of soldiers utilizing the pouches and photos of original cylinder pouches posted on this forum - if they exist.
Thanks.
I have studied the Civil War for over 50 years, read literally hundreds and hundreds of books, articles and first person accounts, etc. and I will state right up front that I am not an expert - if someone claims to know everything, sure enough, something comes along that will either prove them wrong or was not documented before. That said, I would like to make a few comments on the subject of "spare cylinders", etc.
To say they were not used cannot be done with any certainty. I too, had never seen a "spare cylinder pouch" before - either in photographs, in person (and I have been collecting Civil War artifacts for 50 years) and I would have doubted their use as well until recently when I had the opportunity to see a spare cylinder pouch that was stamped USN.
It was very similiar to some of the so called "replicas" that are being used by the reenactors except it was made in conjunction and part of (an extension) flap holster for a Colt Navy. I don't know if it was an experimental accouterment or if it ever was in production as it is the only one I have ever seen.
In regards to swapping cylinders in combat - one has to realize that the common soldier was not like most of the folks on this forum. They did not know how to "fine tune" their pistols and this work was left to the armorer or ordinance officer. Their job was to keep the arms "cobbled" up and working, usually under primitive work conditions in the field. Anyone who has been shot at before, knows the intense fear and the body's reaction.
Changing cylinders in the heat of battle - trying to get a sticky wedge out of a Colt that has been carried in damp or wet conditions, would be a major accomplishment for the best trained soldier or trooper. Time, years passing and each of us have contributed to the romantic idea of the soldiers fighting bravely and with disregard for life or limb. The fact is, they were scared beyond description while in battle.
A good presentation of this are the muskets salvaged off the battlefield at Gettysburg after the battle - approximately 25% had more than one load in the barrel. The soldier would pull the tail of the paper cartridge off with his teeth, pour the powder in the barrel, ram the minie ball home and FORGET to put the cap on the nipple. Guns were found that had more than 25 loads in the barrel.
Combustible cartridges for revolvers were in use as were paper wrapped cartridges for the muskets, whether they be .54, .58 or .69 cal. or even larger in some of the imported European muskets. The various carbines, whether they be Smith, Sharps, Spencer, Burnside, etc. all had their individually issued cartridges.
Getting back to the so-called "common practice" of using multiple cylinders, I'm not saying it was not done, but, I question the wide spread use of spare cylinder pouches and spare cylinders. I myself, would like to hear from those that claim it was widely used, what their documentation is and I also would like to see some photos of original cylinder pouches, who they were manufactured by, etc.
We have plenty of original cartridge boxes and cap boxes in existence - both military issue, experimental and prototypes that are in existence and that can be studied. While I have seen the one USN spare cylinder pouch that was original, I have yet to see any in the various museums that I have visited, the private collections that I have had an opportunity to view or for sale on the collector's market.
So many tales and legends get started and while we all appreciate the "lore" of the Civil War and the Old West, it is often blown out of proportion and repeated as fact. I used to shoot full size Civil War Artillery in a NSSA group and I reenacted a couple of years in an artillery battery as well. I can remember a number of times when those portraying artillerymen would show up on the field armed to the teeth with an artillery saber and one or two pistols. The reality of it is that the run of the mill artilleryman (private) was not issued a pistol and the artillery saber they were issued usually ended up along the side of the road in a ditch as it was useless to someone riding on a caisson with their arms interlocked with a comrade's as they bounced down the road. The job of the artilleryman was to "serve his piece" - at all times. It is true that many of them carried belt knives - but these were not for fighting, they were for cutting the harness on the dead or wounded horse in the teams pulling their guns and caissons.
I don't really mean to "ruffle" anyone's feathers here and that is not my intention. I am just stating that it would be nice to see some documentation to back up the use of spare cylinders, spare cylinder pouches, etc. and perhaps have some original photographs of soldiers utilizing the pouches and photos of original cylinder pouches posted on this forum - if they exist.
Thanks.
I'd feel pretty safe dropping a capped Remington cylinder on nice, flat concrete all day long. I don't see that the cap could be hit, being as protected as it is in the nipple recess of the cylinder. The only way I can see the cap being struck, would be the off chance that the cylinder just happened to be dropped, and just happened to be dropped at just the right angle, rear first and centered on a nipple recess, and a pebble just happened to be in the right spot to stike the cap in the nipple recess. I think the probability of an incident would be incredibly low.
Andy Griffith
New member
Well then, with all this conjecture and speculation...
I think it's time for an experiment.
Now, just so happens I have a cylinder that I picked up at a gun show awhile back...that is .36 caliber that has to be Italian- new, no markings on it and it doesn't fit any Uberti, Pietta or ASM that I've tried it on. It was $10.00
I think somehow they cut the stops off spec.
I'm going to go out to the range and do some drop tests with it- for the heck of it when I get a chance.
I am going to put some caps on it, and put some hollow lead balls in the chambers to increase the weight, but hollow so if the cap goes off, it won't be shot out of the chamber.
Now...I've just got to get this thing planned into my busy schedule.
I think it's time for an experiment.
Now, just so happens I have a cylinder that I picked up at a gun show awhile back...that is .36 caliber that has to be Italian- new, no markings on it and it doesn't fit any Uberti, Pietta or ASM that I've tried it on. It was $10.00
I think somehow they cut the stops off spec.
I'm going to go out to the range and do some drop tests with it- for the heck of it when I get a chance.
I am going to put some caps on it, and put some hollow lead balls in the chambers to increase the weight, but hollow so if the cap goes off, it won't be shot out of the chamber.
Now...I've just got to get this thing planned into my busy schedule.
Andy Griffith
New member
Ok. I'll just pour the hole in the center full of molten lead- viola! Weighted!
I should have thought of that in the first place!
As far as saving time during matches so you can help with posse duties, I'd personally rather have one of my posse members not help with the posse at all then witness the 1 in a million instance of them accidentally dropping their cylinder just the right way to hit the cap, fire the ball and have it hit somebody.
I've thought about this myself. I have a Remmie with the recessed nipples. I'm very comfortable with swapping out my cylinders. I'm healthy, have good motor control, and I'm very confident that it's *extremely* unlikely that I would ever accidentally drop when I swap. I repeat, *extremely* unlikely.
However, I'm not willing to take that chance because I know miracles *do* happen. Sometimes miracle is that someone doesn't get hurt, but sometimes miracle is that someone *does* get hurt. I don't want to witness the latter kind of miracle.
If I was going to be coming under fire I'd certainly consider carrying a spare capped cylinder. The odds of me getting hit by someone who's firing a gun at me while I can't shoot back are probably higher than the odds of me shooting myself swapping out a cylinder. However, I'm not in a war, so I'd rather err on the side of safety.
I've thought about this myself. I have a Remmie with the recessed nipples. I'm very comfortable with swapping out my cylinders. I'm healthy, have good motor control, and I'm very confident that it's *extremely* unlikely that I would ever accidentally drop when I swap. I repeat, *extremely* unlikely.
However, I'm not willing to take that chance because I know miracles *do* happen. Sometimes miracle is that someone doesn't get hurt, but sometimes miracle is that someone *does* get hurt. I don't want to witness the latter kind of miracle.
If I was going to be coming under fire I'd certainly consider carrying a spare capped cylinder. The odds of me getting hit by someone who's firing a gun at me while I can't shoot back are probably higher than the odds of me shooting myself swapping out a cylinder. However, I'm not in a war, so I'd rather err on the side of safety.
madcratebuilder
New member
bedbugbilly said:
Excellent post BBB. For the past forty years I have read period books on the old west expansion and the Indian wars, less on the Civil War. There is discussions of carrying extra revolvers but not extra cylinders. I have two books that reprint much of the Colt sales records, extra cylinders are very rarely mentioned and then only with cased sets.
While I do have extra cylinders for my Remingtons I do not carry them capped. I cap them after they are in the revolver.