Carrying rifle into retail store open to public
- Thread starter DarkRayz
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Glenn E. Meyer
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This reminds me of another rights usage. It is legal to stroll around here as long as you cover your butt and weenie. Thus, a guy put on a flesh colored thong and rode his bike through the affluent neighborhoods for shock value.
If Mr. Thong rode up to the school yard, would you be concerned or congratulate him on his application of the First Amendment?
What if Mr. Thong slung an AR on his back and started to stroll down your street? Call the cops or have a Constitution party!
Are we now convinced that our guy in the OP was foolish?
If Mr. Thong rode up to the school yard, would you be concerned or congratulate him on his application of the First Amendment?
What if Mr. Thong slung an AR on his back and started to stroll down your street? Call the cops or have a Constitution party!
Are we now convinced that our guy in the OP was foolish?
I agree with Glenn Meyer. Carrying a loaded combat-style rifle that is not locked in a case into a store or other building where you would normally expect to interact with strangers is legal in many places. It's also a *bleep* fool thing to do. "Legal" and "smart" are unrelated attributes.
As much as I respect the right of anyone to defend themselves, walking into a retail establishment with a rifle at the ready is not an appropriate action. He picked his weapon, and he picked one that cannot be readily concealed. He picked his car, and he picked one that could not secure a firearm. He could have decided to purchase a lock box, cable, or other device to secure his firearm, but he chose not to. So as a result of all his choices he expects me to welcome him onto my private property where I am responsible for the safety of myself, my staff, and my other clients.
Nope. I have some freedoms, too. I am not responsible for the consequences of another's poor decisions. The answer, at my firm, is that he would be refused service and asked to leave. Any hesitation on his part to comply will result in a call to 911. All communication with him will take place with a handgun in hand and held discretely so as not to be seen. Why? This guy already has shown extremely poor judgment, and I have to wonder what he is going to do next.
What would happen if the guy stopped at a bank with the same story?
Nope. I have some freedoms, too. I am not responsible for the consequences of another's poor decisions. The answer, at my firm, is that he would be refused service and asked to leave. Any hesitation on his part to comply will result in a call to 911. All communication with him will take place with a handgun in hand and held discretely so as not to be seen. Why? This guy already has shown extremely poor judgment, and I have to wonder what he is going to do next.
What would happen if the guy stopped at a bank with the same story?
It kinda depends on what part of the country he was in and if it was rural or not.
When I was growing up it was not unusual to see man or kid walking or riding a bike down the street carrying a shotgun or rifle. If a LEO saw you he might stop you and ask if the firearm unloaded and ask to see it. If you went into a store the owner or clerk would ask you if it was unloaded. They might ask you to let them keep it behind the counter until you were ready to check out.
When I was growing up it was not unusual to see man or kid walking or riding a bike down the street carrying a shotgun or rifle. If a LEO saw you he might stop you and ask if the firearm unloaded and ask to see it. If you went into a store the owner or clerk would ask you if it was unloaded. They might ask you to let them keep it behind the counter until you were ready to check out.
sakeneko,
Not that it would change your response at all, but DarkRayz did say the rifle had no magazine in place. 'Course, that's not necessarily the same as unloaded.
I am an ardent supporter, and practitioner, of legal open carry of a sidearm. I also have no quarrel with responsibly carrying a rifle, in the proper context. But this is just plain goofy. Carrying a rifle into the store in that fashion, as opposed to slung, is going to have me moving perhaps to "burnt sienna," too. (That's classic, by the way!) The guy's calm demeanor means less than nothing to me. How many spree shooters have been described as "calm" and "methodical" as they laid waste to innocent bystanders, school kids, co-workers? Uh-uh, not this mother's son. I'm going to be preparing for active defense or evasion post haste.
Contrast this, if you will, with open carry of a sidearm, properly holstered. The firearm stays in that holster, often only minimally visible, and the owner doesn't go anywhere near it unless absolutely necessary.
So, TailGator nailed it. This guy manufactured this situation, quite painstakingly. It wasn't a single bad decision, but a confluence of decisions that put him in a needlessly tense, and quite possibly dangerous, situation. Depending on the locale and the reaction of the other customers or staff, it could have had fatal consequences. Why? Because he refused to buy a rifle case or at least a darned sling? Because he couldn't be inconvenienced?
Survey SAYS: Moron.
Stay safe,
Bob James
Not that it would change your response at all, but DarkRayz did say the rifle had no magazine in place. 'Course, that's not necessarily the same as unloaded.
I am an ardent supporter, and practitioner, of legal open carry of a sidearm. I also have no quarrel with responsibly carrying a rifle, in the proper context. But this is just plain goofy. Carrying a rifle into the store in that fashion, as opposed to slung, is going to have me moving perhaps to "burnt sienna," too. (That's classic, by the way!) The guy's calm demeanor means less than nothing to me. How many spree shooters have been described as "calm" and "methodical" as they laid waste to innocent bystanders, school kids, co-workers? Uh-uh, not this mother's son. I'm going to be preparing for active defense or evasion post haste.
Contrast this, if you will, with open carry of a sidearm, properly holstered. The firearm stays in that holster, often only minimally visible, and the owner doesn't go anywhere near it unless absolutely necessary.
So, TailGator nailed it. This guy manufactured this situation, quite painstakingly. It wasn't a single bad decision, but a confluence of decisions that put him in a needlessly tense, and quite possibly dangerous, situation. Depending on the locale and the reaction of the other customers or staff, it could have had fatal consequences. Why? Because he refused to buy a rifle case or at least a darned sling? Because he couldn't be inconvenienced?
Survey SAYS: Moron.
Stay safe,
Bob James
Couldn't agree more, Mr. James. I carry openly sometimes, and when I do, my revolver is properly holstered. In my part of the country (northern Nevada), that type of carry rarely attracts any attention, at least not if the person doing it appears sane and responsible. If I had a long gun with me, however, in any circumstances that I can imagine it would stay locked in the car if I had to go into a store. (That, or I would stay with the gun and my husband would go into the store.) Laws are one thing. Respect and courtesy are another thing, at least as important as the first, and are critical to living in a society with other people whose thoughs, habits, and experiences aren't the same as yours and who have no more capacity to read minds than you do.
Besides, as we say in science fiction and fantasy fandom, it's not nice to freak out the mundanes.
Besides, as we say in science fiction and fantasy fandom, it's not nice to freak out the mundanes.
I live in rural northeast Oregon. This is rancher/logger/cowboy country and rifles in rear-window gun racks have been as common as steak and eggs for as long as I've been here, 33 years. In all that time I've never seen or heard of anyone doing anything as stupid as this character. I think he's just one of these guys who think it makes them cool or like some kind of bad dude to carry a scary-looking weapon into a public place. As common as guns are here this would have never been tolerated.
A couple of years back a guy happened to run into a friend in a bank parking lot here in town. He had just purchased a new hunting rifle and wanted to show his buddy. The drive-up window teller looked out and saw a "man in the parking lot with a weapon" and immediately called the cops. All hell decended on the guy before he knew what hit him. They hauled him off to the hoosgow and he had to do some tall explaining before they finally let him go.
A couple of years back a guy happened to run into a friend in a bank parking lot here in town. He had just purchased a new hunting rifle and wanted to show his buddy. The drive-up window teller looked out and saw a "man in the parking lot with a weapon" and immediately called the cops. All hell decended on the guy before he knew what hit him. They hauled him off to the hoosgow and he had to do some tall explaining before they finally let him go.
I would have to agree that the guy at least put it on a sling so he's not carrying it in his hand. Just seems like one of those behaviors that will eventually create quite a commotion.
I'd feel less threatened initially if a guy walked in with a gun on his back instead of his hand.
I'd feel less threatened initially if a guy walked in with a gun on his back instead of his hand.
Threads like this are created by anti-gun folks who troll on this board wanting to stir up emotional responses.
In some localities, it is perfectly ok to bring a weapon into a retail store no matter if its a rifle or pistol. In other localities, its not acceptable at all. In areas where hunting is popular and the laws are relaxed, its not uncommon to see a man bring his rifle into the store. The reason why he is bringing it in is because its not safe to leave out in the car.
Car thieves can break into your vehicle, and no matter how you locked your weapon, will be able to steal it in a second. In areas where hunting is popular these car thieves seem to be congregate and theft from cars is commonplace. Serious hunters will spend thousands of dollars to customize their rifles so they are not going to simply leave them out in the car.
In this instance, the only person that was shocked was the customer who witnessed what was happening, but not the store staff. This tells me that that locality is not uncomfortable with people toting weaponry.
In some localities, it is perfectly ok to bring a weapon into a retail store no matter if its a rifle or pistol. In other localities, its not acceptable at all. In areas where hunting is popular and the laws are relaxed, its not uncommon to see a man bring his rifle into the store. The reason why he is bringing it in is because its not safe to leave out in the car.
Car thieves can break into your vehicle, and no matter how you locked your weapon, will be able to steal it in a second. In areas where hunting is popular these car thieves seem to be congregate and theft from cars is commonplace. Serious hunters will spend thousands of dollars to customize their rifles so they are not going to simply leave them out in the car.
In this instance, the only person that was shocked was the customer who witnessed what was happening, but not the store staff. This tells me that that locality is not uncomfortable with people toting weaponry.
oneounceload
Moderator
Interesting - having lived in ND, rural CO, and northern NV, in small towns where hunting was a BIG business in the fall, I have NEVER seen someone carrying a rifle into any store unless it was cased and going in for repair. If it is locked in the trunk, it will be perfectly fine for the 5 minutes it took him to get his brake fluid
IMO, he was very lucky someone didn't feel a perceived threat and shot him first
Even when I lived in Texas, guns in the pickup window racks were all over the place - no one brought them into the store - there was no need.
The Constitution doesnt say "The right to bear arms...but only if you have a case". The guy was casually carrying his weapon and he has that right just like if someone was protesting outside of the store. He was not assaulting anyone with the weapon such as pointing or aiming. If he is carrying a weapon and the law and Constitution seem to be in-line with what he is doing, then there is nothing you can do besides address the issue with your lawmakers and have them change the Constitution.
When the law is on your side, its on your side. If there is no law against what someone is doing, then you cant do anything besides watch. Many localities placed outright bans on weaponry, but the Supreme Court is slowly catching up with them all. Maybe in the future they will start addressing CCW permits too. Dont like it? Take it up with your Senator or Representative and change the United States Constitution.
If you decide to address this guy by pointing a weapon at him when he is not pointing a weapon or creating a disturbance, then you risk getting charged with a felony...assault with a firearm. Then you will have to articulate your logic to a judge or jury and they will make the final decision.
When the law is on your side, its on your side. If there is no law against what someone is doing, then you cant do anything besides watch. Many localities placed outright bans on weaponry, but the Supreme Court is slowly catching up with them all. Maybe in the future they will start addressing CCW permits too. Dont like it? Take it up with your Senator or Representative and change the United States Constitution.
If you decide to address this guy by pointing a weapon at him when he is not pointing a weapon or creating a disturbance, then you risk getting charged with a felony...assault with a firearm. Then you will have to articulate your logic to a judge or jury and they will make the final decision.
Lol. Sorta funny.....As I said elsewhere I must be in a real hick part of Montana....
I've seen a few people carrying rifles odd places. Auto-parts stores, farm/ranch store, grocery store. In all instances it was to look for a part/piece/make-do on it, although a couple of times it has been to show to a friend, a couple of times because the door locks don't work (And yes: our town has a group of sticky-fingers in it).
Admittedly, outside of a 800 or 1600 population town it might not be a bright idea, especially of the state was blue in the last election.
I've seen a few people carrying rifles odd places. Auto-parts stores, farm/ranch store, grocery store. In all instances it was to look for a part/piece/make-do on it, although a couple of times it has been to show to a friend, a couple of times because the door locks don't work (And yes: our town has a group of sticky-fingers in it).
Admittedly, outside of a 800 or 1600 population town it might not be a bright idea, especially of the state was blue in the last election.
Gimme a break. Do you really think that the OP is an anti-gun spy, a plant sent here to write disruptive posts.
Nah, I don't think so.
Someone already noted about living in rural hunting areas. I live in a area in PA where hunting is big business. I have never seen any one walk into a store with a firearm in hand, except a gun store. Not once.
Pete
Open carry (OC) may well be legal.
Most folks will dial 911. They have been programmed to avoid the boogieman. Anyone w/ a gun is BAD!!!
Here in MI we can OC a handgun, if certain conditions are met. Long gun--Im not sure but was at an OC rally at the capital steps and several were carryoing(rifles) and for the day one could carry into the capital.
Most folks will dial 911. They have been programmed to avoid the boogieman. Anyone w/ a gun is BAD!!!
Here in MI we can OC a handgun, if certain conditions are met. Long gun--Im not sure but was at an OC rally at the capital steps and several were carryoing(rifles) and for the day one could carry into the capital.
stephen426
New member
With the work place shootings that have been going on, carrying an assault rifle around without a case is just plain stupid. There is a difference between a hunting rifle or a hunting shotgun and an assault rifle. As someone else mentioned, most people leave their weapons in their vehicles. If he chooses to drive a jeep, then he needs to take the proper precautions to protect his property. Walking around with an assault rifle is NOT the ideal way to protect his weapon.
Major Beef
New member
It's just not a very smart thing to do. The reality is, people in general are alarmed when seeing someone openly carrying a weapon in a non-firearms related establishment.
If that guy had walked in with a gun and that store was previously robbed, he could be staring at the wrong end of a gun, wielded by a skittish store owner ready to unleash his PTSD any second.
Just because you have the law on your side, doesn't mean you stop acting responsibly and being considerate of other people. I don't want to stir this thread the wrong way, but just an apt analogy from current events: Even though Muslims have a legal right to build a mosque right next to the WTC, should they do it??
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
On that point - which makes the common sense point - it's time to end this.
The consensus is that while legal, it's a stupid thing. The strict legalists want folks do celebrate the exercise of rights, while the cautious point out that we can't tell this guy from a rampager, workplace avenger, etc.
That's it.
Closed.
The consensus is that while legal, it's a stupid thing. The strict legalists want folks do celebrate the exercise of rights, while the cautious point out that we can't tell this guy from a rampager, workplace avenger, etc.
That's it.
Closed.
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