Carrying Personal Weapons in Military

I call shenanigans. CENTCOM policy is no personal weapons or ammo. Company, Battalion, Brigade, Division, etc... commanders don't outrank the CENTCOM commander. They aren't approving personal weapons.

Cool guys might get the occasional exception, but cool guys have access to govt purchased cool-guy stuff. So really there's no need for them to have exceptions for personal weapons. The ones I ran into had issue M9's and P226's for handguns, but they had a lot of non-standard rifles. SBR or suppressed M4's, SCARs, etc...

Did some folks sneak their personal weapons into and out of theater? Probably, but not very many.

I am an active duty officer (prior enlisted), starting my 31st year of service.
 
fredvon4 wrote:
The Ops post really confuses me

I was drafted 1973 and retired after 14 months Army Command Sergeants Major CSM in 1996
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Don't you mean 14 "years" later? There is no person in the military who had made the trip from buck private to CAM in 14 months.

Went to combat several times but not Vietnam...
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How did you miss out on Vietnam? Due to the severe shortage of NCOs during Vietnam, NCOs were rotating through every three to five years.

I was sent from TRADOC Ft Eustis VA for a specific mission.
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When were you at Eustis? I ask because dependingf on the date my father may have been your commanding officer.
 
Barry Lee wrote:
...I was under the impression that other than some Special Forces and maybe Officers that this just wasn’t allowed.
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According to my father, who commanded the 5th Transportation Command out of Qhi Nhon, in the late 1960's - early 1970's, during Vietnam, the attitude (not necessarily the law, regulation or policy) was that so long as you could 1) turn in any weapons issued to you by the government, and 2) weren't trying to take back home any fully-automatic weapons as war trophies, it was pretty much a case of "anything goes" while "in-country".
 
Go Ordnance wrote:
...CENTCOM policy is no personal weapons or ammo. Company, Battalion, Brigade, Division, etc... commanders don't outrank the CENTCOM commander. They aren't approving personal weapons.
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Well, there's a big difference between "approving" the carry of personal weapons and "tolerating" those do did in spite of policy.
 
I remembered reading a report that there was at least one Navy air group on a carrier who made a group purchase of privately owned Ruger 9mm pistols.

The pistols were kept in the carrier armory and issued to the owner for combat ops, then returned to the armory.
Upon return home, each crewman took his personal Ruger with him.

There was also that famous photo in the Iraq war of an officer and NCO with amazed looks examining a box full of pistols found in one of Saddam's palaces.
They were longingly examining a pair of 2 1/2 inch Colt Pythons.
They were very disappointed that they couldn't take them home even though they were American made commercial guns.
 
I've read though this entire thread and
I think WC145 finally touched on a point
that I was considering.

Today's military is the all-volunteer kind
and officers and enlisted personnel all
volunteered for service.

In former times, many officers and most
enlisted were civilians at heart drafted
into the services. Their views were
different about a whole gamut of military
ethos including regulations.
 
I served in Vietnam 67-68 , l carried M16 sometimes M 60 some of my friends would carry extra handguns that weren't Army issue . Just extra weight but everyone carried what was issued to you . Getting them home I don't think so . When I left Vietnam they checked our duffle bags , confiscated rolls of film not developed any captured weapons , we left Vietnam unarmed . Those weapons were left to your friends still in country who wanted them . There was a guy in our company that got cought shipping weapons home in whole baggage that he took from the QC's Vietnamese police after beating the crap out of them . He was court-martialed . You want a M 1 carbine or a 38 cheap , what a character but it did bring a few laughs , even now that I think of it . With the rules an regulations now , I would think bringing your personal weapon back an forth from a war seems a bit much.
 
Well, there's a big difference between "approving" the carry of personal weapons and "tolerating" those do did in spite of policy
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I will agree with this. However... The fact remains that the op's acquaintance managed to get his piece back statewide. As many who have deployed have described, getting a weapon to country (and carrying it in, if command is friendly) is not overly difficult. Getting it back is another matter. You're bags are tossed and sneaking a weapon back wouldn't be easy. There are ways, but they're a big gamble. Not something I wanted to wager rank and a $500 dollar pistol on.

I agree theoretically it could happen. But I do believe it was so rare to almost be fanciful. I believe the guy is lying. I've never seen anyone with a personal weapon on my 3 combat deployments.
 
Hdwhit

Just poor writing
Drafted 73 ...enlisted for 4 instead of the 2year draft obligation...got a combat arms enlistment bonus

Long war time Basic for my class 14 weeks
The combat arms enlistment had me selected for Field Artillery...sent to Ft Lewis for new single unit Advanced Individual Training (AIT) Not to Ft Sill as was typical

Later as a first sergeant I was tagged to be acting CSM of 4/227 Aviation BN did that job and still had my Maintenance company as 1SG for 14 months

For family (kids in high School) reasons I retired before attending the academy

Retire 1-1-1996 with a tad over 23 years active

Ft Eustis assignment was mid 87 until 91 at the Aviation School house
 
fredvon4
Anyone with a box or star inside of those rockers was highly respected , 90 day wonders another story . Kids out of highschool we were but back then 1967 thinking back , we seemed and acted much older then the kids now . Enjoy your retirement .

Chris
 
Thanks Chris
The experience was rewarding in many ways
Meeting a woman to love and respect and raising 3 successful citizens

My wife's story of enlisting and eventually being the Command Sergeants Major of 6th Air Calvary Brigade..
She was the first Aviation Female CSM one other gal beat her to Aviation E-9 buy a month or three but as a Staff Sergeants Major

This thread touches a lot on what we all think we KNOW
Some thoughts on stolen valor
Wisdom of arming all soldiers all the time
The variances of combat zone...the culture, and the willful disregard for some regulation or order

My dad was a Korea and Viet Nam combat Officer

As stated, I did not go to the Nam but from the NCOs who trained me and my dad's eyes I got a fair understanding of how that theater of ops was managed....VERY POORLY IMO

Best left for debate on another forum and a different topic

As a senior NCO in First Gulf war and subsequent Iraq/Afghanistan/Kuwait/Sinai missions

I can tell you there were and are civilian weapons in every theater ...some sanctioned and many forbiden

My recount for the temp assignment to 8Th Bat 101 returning to Ft Campbell March/April 1991

Un fortunately for that CSM he had to deal with a conex of 11 or more forbidden AK 47s shipped by one of the flight crews....several months after the fact...

One of the dummies got his "captured" AK and went nutz with it off base... Mom and Dad actually turned him in to the Army CID...But he was already on the way to me in the 4/159 aviation regiment Echerdingen AAF Stuttgart Germany

I know him cuz he was in my unit in Germany after the gulf war and I had to deal with him and CID as they fussed with him to rat out all the other crew members who had the unauthorized AKs

Another great way some dummies were caught and AR-15ed or Courts martial...

Conex full of personal gear miss-shipped or lost.....later found....while those soldiers got Paid claims for lost property

CID tagged 1SG me to round up 17 of my soldiers and bring to rail head where the conex is finally arrived 18 months later... one by one each soldier has to inventory what is HIS in the conex...then explaine why the gold bracelet or diamond ring or other high dollar item he claimed, and got paid for, is NOT in the locked conex....OOOOPS!

Majors, Captains, Senior sergeants, lower enlisted... of 17 ...12 buggered them selves pretty hard-- all the commissioned officers lost their careers

Opps forgot the point...there were 5 AK 47s and 3 Hand Grenades in the conex...

NOT one of the 17 copped to having put them in there...Ya Think!
 
fredvon4
That was a good read . I'm sure we both could right a book . We'll be talking again on some other post . For now Have A Happy & Healthy New Year . All My Respect .

Chris
 
Go_Ordnance said:
I call shenanigans. CENTCOM policy is no personal weapons or ammo. Company, Battalion, Brigade, Division, etc... commanders don't outrank the CENTCOM commander. They aren't approving personal weapons.
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The majority of cases I knew of were the early stages of Afghanistan and Iraq. I don't think there was much attention paid to CENTCOM policy at the outset. Since about 2005, both theaters were pretty well established and policies much easier to enforce (or at least more pressure on commanders willing to ignore them). There were more than a few cases where a BHP or Glock was "obtained" and passed along during RIP/TOAs and transitions to other units. I haven't seen anything similar since 2009 to present in Afghanistan. If you've spent any time around or with the 82nd, you know they have their own policies that supersede everything else in DA or DoD (where's that damn sarcasm font!).

ROCK6
 
My time in the Marine Corps was in an era that there was what was officially forbidden and what was officially permitted, and then there was what we sometimes did. As Kragwy said, troops do what they can get away with. I had a friend who was a Marine before me and in his tour in Vietnam has had his sister ship over a Hawes 44 Mag which he carried for many months. Sometime in his tour his platoon leader (1st Lt) was replaced by another and shortly after that they got in a fight and he shot an NVA soldier with the 44. The 1dt Lt saw it and made a fuss, so he was required to ship it home. He actually shipped it to an Ari Force buddy he had who was stationed in Guam as I recall, and his buddy took it home for him because if some glitch with shipping the gun back to AZ where his home was.
The platoon leader that he has before was 100% cool with his carrying it. But the new Lt wanted to make some point of his authority I guess.

I had my own personal Colt Combat Commander in my days as a marine, but I only used it for fun and for my own time. I never took it out on any patrol. Why would I? They gave me a 1911A1 as a standard issue.

I also had a 50-140 Sharps that I would bring to Rifle Qualification and a bunch of us (especially the officers) would have fun with it at the 300 and 500 yard lines after the quals were finished It was a big hit with the gun-guys, which MANY Marines were. I am told that today such things are taboo, but that was in the 70s and it was cool to do it then as long as the company Commander knew in advance. After my first appearance with the Sharps not only did our C.O. know, but he'd ask me to bring it.

It was not uncommon for Marines to bring out their private arms, but I never saw one used in the field. I know of several Marines that did so, but only from what they told me.
We had a CWO4 who used a Browning High Power in Vietnam, and one Gunnery Sargent took his own M70 30-06 Winchester over.

My CO told me if I wanted to take my Combat Commander on deployment it was OK with him, but I was not willing to take it just because of the chance of loosing it, and the issue 1911 was just fine with me. Our Master Sargent took an Ithica M37 Riot gun that belongs to him, but he said it "lived in his office" and he never took it out or fired a shot with it in his whole time in Vietnam.
 
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There is the other side of this where some of your Marines carrying issued MEUSOC 1911's get detained by someone who doesn't know any better who then turns them over to the MPs who hold on to them until a Company Commander or higher can get there with proof that they are indeed issued pistols.
 
In my Marine Corps it was NEVER allowed, although I did see a general with a Browning Hi Power during the Gulf War.
 
although I did see a general with a Browning Hi Power during the Gulf War
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General grade officers pretty much get to write their own rules, only a higher ranking General can overrule them.
 
Interesting thread. I never served in the military so I only know what I have read. I have read that now if you have a personal weapon and kill an enemy soldier with it you can be charged with murder.

In one of my old Guns & Ammo annuals there is a picture of a guy in Vietnam that had a Marlin 444 sent to him and he used it as a Bunker Buster. He disappeared in the jungles and was never seen again.

My buds brother went to Nam and the only thing he brought back in his duffle bag was pot. I saw a picture of it piled up with little green army men placed all over it. He said it took him two years to smoke it all.

I know one other person that says he carried back a full auto M-16 and full auto AK-47 and has them stashed in his attic. I have never seen them, never asked to see them and do not want to see them. Since he passed away I have wondered what happened to them.

Believe these stories if you want or don't. Makes me no difference.
 
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