Carrying, Being Approached

It's the victim selection literature. They can even take a person and turn them into a dot picture - just dots walking around that seems like a person and folks know who to pick on or not.

Some criminals who took part will point to an older lady and say leave her alone vs. picking on some young guy who looks like a victim.

There are gait, stride, scanning, head position cues - which signal alterness and resistance.
 
Dogs, horses, etc...

There have been a few threads where we've gone back and forth about what tactics to use against aggressive dogs.

I've tried to make the point in those that very often, the best defense against a dog isn't a gun, or spray, or even a milk-bone - it's a combination of posture and attitude.

On a related note, a few years back, various sponsors - from business and sales schools to mental health counseling groups - started sending clients to equine therapy/training. The idea being that horses respond MUCH more to non-verbal than to verbal cues. The salespeople could learn the importance of non-verbal communication, because they couldn't BS a horse. Shy people, who don't talk easily, could improve their social interactions in a comfortable venue.

How does this all relate?

If you want to learn the type of body language that keeps iffy characters at bay, it may not hurt to interact more with dogs, horses, etc, and learn how to establish yourself as an "Alpha," without going overboard and forcing a confrontation when one isn't necessary.

Because it works with people, too.

Cheers,

M
 
One of the biggest mistakes that people make is assuming that all criminals are stupid thugs. You have to remember that this is what they do for a living, it's their job, and most of them get very proficient at reading potential targets. The change in body language and attitude due to preparedness and a lack of fear is obvious to them and they will move on to the next potential victim the same way a burglar will move on to the house without a dog in it.

Just because they dropped out of school, never underestimate someone who can survive on the streets.
 
You make sense there. Many criminals are highly intelligent. They simply use their intelligence for evil instead of good.
 
"Superman Syndrome"...

From reading the 1st post, I get the strong impression that the member may just think or assumes fewer street people/panhandlers etc are going up to him.

For any CC license or permit holder or any armed professional I'd say it's very important to avoid what I call the "Superman Syndrome".
Just because you have a valid or legal carry license or badge & a loaded firearm does NOT mean that everyone around you at all times knows that!
Over the years, I've seen a few plainclothes sworn LE officers, federal agents and protective service types(EP agents, PIs, security guards, etc) who carry weapons/firearms "concealed" then get upset or irrate when asked for their badges or permits.
Gun writer/sworn LEO/use of force trainer Massad Ayoob wrote a great article about how the FBI's first female special agent killed in the line of duty was because of a stupid mistake. The FBI agent(in plainclothes) was part of a bank robbery task force, went with a group of agents to a crime in progress, was ordered to maintain a post(which according to incident reports she left), and was shot/killed by another LE officer at the crime scene.
A young plainclothes police officer in my area was killed a few years ago by a uniformed bike patrol LE officer(from a different agency). The cop drew his Glock pistol(his only duty weapon) on a crowd of intoxicated college students at a sporting event. The uniformed officer saw the "armed subject" and shot him.
These tragic events show why it's important to be alert & dilligent while carrying concealed weapons. I'd maintain a low profile and not engage strangers or street people.
I'd also say it's smart to be aware of your surroundings and not to look meek.
As combat veteran, sworn LE officer and training expert Clint Smith says; "If you look like food you will be eaten." ;)
 
No Clyde, I don't have "Superman Syndrome". No, I don't swagger down the street, chomping at the bit to pull my weapon. No, I didn't "just think or assume" anything. I simply stated the facts that I've always been a target of panhandlers of all sorts. Winos have picked me out of a large crowd many times over the years to beg money. I've had months at a time that I couldn't walk across a parking lot without someone hustling me. I am soft hearted in many ways & it obviously showed. Long before I started carrying, I came up with ways to help people as I was able, without giving $ to strangers. I've offered to buy food for the guy who "hasn't eaten since yesterday", offered gas to the guy who "ran out of gas on my way to wherever & out of $". My typical response became "I'm short on cash but I have gas cards & I'll get you $10 in gas". If someone agreed to such,they got my help. If they said "I'd rather have the $, I'd say "out of luck". While I know I got suckered sometimes, I'm also a fair judge of character & I never got into a threatening situation.

At any rate, since I started carrying, nearly 2 years ago, I've had far fewer encounters. I'm still an easygoing person, I still don't suspect every stranger of being a BG, still help old ladies with their groceries, still strike up conversations in checkout lines, still make cheerful remarks to the tired clerk near the end of her shift, still help people stranded with flat tires, etc. But I took seriously the advice of my CCW instructor to be highly aware of my surroundings, watchful of any sign of trouble, etc. I think that partially gives me a "new face" as far as beggars go. They must read my face a little differently than they used to, as I seldom get approached any more. No, I won't shoot them or brandish my weapon if they approach. Yes, I may still help them in some way if they convince me they need it. But I sure don't mind being able to go most places now without bums homing in on me.
 
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Sitting in a bar one night,girl sits down next to me and asks are you a cop or a soldier?I ask why,she says I've been watching you,you're sitting far left against the wall,moved chairs from in back of you so you're not expecting company,you give the once over to everyone coming through the door,bartenders and servers know you.
I said i used to be a cop in the Army.Then i asked are you a psychiatrist or a psychologist? You came in ,walked once around the bar,got a glass of red wine which you are nursing,sat down four times listening to others conversations,and you're not waiting for anyone because you haven't glanced once at the door,now you're analyzing me.She was a psychologist for the city police department.
Your actions and movements give you away,i don't get approached by panhandlers and scum bags to this day.
 
I don't think I act, walk, talk, or interact any differently at all when I am carrying or when I am not. I also do not notice any change in interactions with panhandlers, or various street folks when I am in urban settings where they tend to be.

I would respectfully submit that if a person is in fact having a different reaction from these folks, that they are either telegraphing their status, which they should not be doing, or they are wittingly or unwittingly altering affect/demeanor according to ccw status which they should also not be doing. You should carry yourself in a condition yellow status at all times when in public. You should be aware of your surroundings, keep your head on a discrete swivel, walk like you have someplace to go, and have a bearing of understated confidence.

Like many folks here I deal with criminals on a daily basis. Aside from the ones who are just organic morons (they are legion), the others have an innate ability to sense any weakness or opening, and have an almost uncanny ability to take advantage of it. They also have absolutely no compunction regarding taking your last dollar, or causing someone hardship of any type. I had a career thief tell right to my face once that when he is stealing from a mark it is not like he is taking another person's money. It is like he is taking HIS money that that person happens to have. That my friends is the difference between us and them. You can fancy it up by ascribing names to it like antisocial personality disorder and so forth, which is perfectly legitimate, but the basic fact is they can sense weakness, they can sense overconfidence, and they don't give one little rip about taking the last dollar you need to feed your baby, or whether you get hurt in the process. You are just an obstacle to their desire for immediate gratification. You have no more value than a box top to be ripped open to get to the Froot Loops. That's all you are, and you have to come to that realization.

Don't telegraph anything unless it is with a singular purpose, and learn to be something other than the mark they are looking for without carrying yourself like you are on patrol on the DMZ. This will solve the majority of all possible encounters. Have something to defend yourself with for the other times. Avoid using that something if you can.
 
No,there is a definite difference.

That comes from the fact you are not carrying as much fear with you.

Your body language displays that fact.

When you look at street people,your gaze says to them,"I'm ready for anything you have coming my way."

Thugs read that and most don't want to test you on that.

They are mostly cowards looking for an easy victim.

Mostly lazy asses that don't want to work anyway.

That changes drastically if there is two or more people in the group you are approaching.

Still,being ready is the key.

As is not challenging them with a steady stare,like you want them to react to you.

Sometimes,people, in groups like this will try to feel you out with a comment or maybe two or three steps in your direction.

Best to not say anything and simply keep moving on,with your hand on your weapon,ready to draw,if needed.

If the group is large and looks already unruly,turning around and heading the other way is the best course of action.

But there is definite body language comminication that goes on there.

Veteran police officers as well as private citizens save their lives everyday using that to read people.
 
The one sentence jhenry wrote fits what I have done for years, even before carrying. "You should be aware of your surroundings, keep your head on a discrete swivel, walk like you have someplace to go, and have a bearing of understated confidence." Certainly words to live by and it seems that many who have spent time in the military have some of these atributes engrained into them if they have taken the training to heart.
 
BNreal, I think you missed the point. Aside from that, if someone is telegraphing the amount of 'fear' they are carrying around depending on their ccw status then the issue for that individual is probably beyond the scope of a gun forum.

The point I was trying to make is this in a nutshell. A person has to be in conscious control of their affect and demeanor. What is going on inside has to be able to be separate from what is going on outside. What is going on outside has to be unattractive to panhandlers and criminals. Panhandlers and more serious criminals, whether they are cowards and lazy and whatever else they may be, have, in general, the ability to very skillfully determine who is the mark and who is not. They also have no thoughts or feelings, in general, regarding anyone's well being other than their own. They also have little ability to delay gratification. These things are separate from lazy or cowardly. There are plenty of lazy or cowardly folks in the world who are not pathalogically antisocial. There are plenty of folks with antisocial personality disorders who are energetic and have no fear. They can combine but they don't have to.

The average street goofball who wants a handout or your wallet is, and you are correct, lazy, and cowardly. General affect and demeanor will effectively repel these dregs in most all instances.

Other times, not so much.

These traits I attempted to explain without getting to in depth really are what differentiates us from them. We care about how our actions effect others. They do not. We have anxiety about doing something wrong. They do not, only have anxiety when caught, and then only over what will happen to them. We work toward and care about the common good, they do not. We are appropriately attached to others, they are not. We have appropriate boundries, they do not. Similarly it goes on with delaying gratification, impulsive behavior, and guilt/shame/remorse. Of course not every criminal has every trait, and not every criminal is some utter sociopath, but you will find these things to one degree or another in pretty much every real criminal.

Being aware that we have no value at all to a true criminal is an important thing for folks to realize. They want want they want, they want it now, and we are in the way. Becoming unattractive to that thought process in their mind and having the ability to make it real is the key in my opinion.
 
There are a variety of reasons people are selected. The "professional calculation," think of it as a risk-to-reward calculation, of a panhandler hoping for charity uses is different than that of a mugger hoping for a quick role which is different than a bully looking for a easy victory which is different still than that of a fighter looking for a real challenge. And then there are the wild-cards, those types who make no calculation, and merely act on impulse. The point? There is no one sure way of avoiding them all. But... If your attracting one type consistently, I suggest that there an adjustment might be in order.
 
"easy licks", real true stories of life on the street...

I disagree with the member who says many criminals are "smart".
I don't think they possess a high intelligence the average street thug is "savvy" and has honed their instincts to ID a "easy lick".
It's important to keep in mind to be alert to danger or threats too.
About 5 years ago in my urban area, a armed, uniformed security guard was robbed at gunpoint by 2 criminals in a apartment complex at night.
The duo advanced on the armed guard, asked for directions in a friendly tone, then when the security officer became lax, the thugs held him up, stealing his badge, loaded weapon, OC spray and ASP baton.
A armed security officer I worked with on a storm recovery contract in 2005(Wilma in south Florida) later went back to working in the Daytona Beach FL area. He was from Sweden and did not have a LE/military background. I heard from a few security co-workers & other sources that the armed guard was attacked by multiple subjects & shot to death while on duty in a large warehouse. :(
He was very friendly & out-going too but his lack of skill training and being alert led to his death, in my honest opinion.
CF
 
Clyde, the only reference I can find in this thread about criminals being smart is the one stating "many criminals are highly intelligent" which is a pure and simple truth. I think the poster may have been able to state that a little more clearly though. "Many" has no quantity attached to it, no percentage. Most are not highly intelligent by any stretch of the imagination, but there are some who are. Given the number of known criminals at any one point, even a small percentage of that makes "many" in my book. Criminal behavior also covers a pretty wide spectrum. What we are dealing with in this thread however is the common street thug or panhandler, the vast majority of whom are undereducated, not very smart, and have substance abuse and mental issues all at once in some blend or another. Mostly. They are still pretty street savvy (they have to be), and can be dangerous.

As for your friend from Sweden, unless he left Sweden prior to his late teens he was a veteran. Sweden has had mandatory military service for quite some time. It ended just this year. Military service also covers a pretty wide spectrum. Simply being a vet imbues no one with any special anything in the scenario he found himself in. Being a active duty or a veteran, just like being a cop or former cop, simply gives a person the opportunity to learn and develop. It is no sure thing by any means.
 
Dunno about you, ClydeFrog, but if I had to conduct business in a bad part of town, I'd choose a street-smart type over a MENSA member every time as backup.
 
Absolutely. The last actual MENSA member I had dealings with, who I will refer to as a "Mr. Johnson" simply because that was his real name, was a guy who worked for me probably 20 years ago when I was doing some work with high risk juveniles. His people skills were so poor, his substance abuse recovery was so BS, and his ability to interact without discord was sooo lacking that I fired him on the spot one day. Bye Bye Professor Dillweed.

I wouldn't have trusted that certified genius to walk my dog.
 
The one sentence jhenry wrote fits what I have done for years, even before carrying. "You should be aware of your surroundings, keep your head on a discrete swivel, walk like you have someplace to go, and have a bearing of understated confidence."
Click to expand...
Same here and nothing's changed in people's approach to me. However, I'm quite glad I am now able to carry, as I'm still the same size and build, but of course, not as young as I used to be.
 
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