Carry question

H

holt2010

New member
Hey guys I live in Arkansas and its legal to posses a handgun at the age of 18, but you cant get your concealed carry license until the age of 21. That being said, im 18 years old and i was wondering if I could carry my handgun in the car in plain view, not concealed, but in plain view. My local gun shop said it was ok but i really dont know. Can somebody help me out please?
 
Here's the full statute:

5-73-120. Carrying a weapon.

(a) A person commits the offense of carrying a weapon if he or she possesses a handgun, knife, or club on or about his or her person, in a vehicle occupied by him or her, or otherwise readily available for use with a purpose to employ the handgun, knife, or club as a weapon against a person.
(b) As used in this section:
(1) “Club” means any instrument that is specially designed, made, or adapted for the purpose of inflicting serious physical injury or death by striking, including a blackjack, billie, and sap;
(2) “Handgun” means any firearm with a barrel length of less than twelve inches (12") that is designed, made, or adapted to be fired with one (1) hand; and
(3) (A) “Knife” means any bladed hand instrument that is capable of inflicting serious physical injury or death by cutting or stabbing.
(B) “Knife” includes a dirk, sword or spear in a cane, razor, ice pick, throwing star, switchblade, and butterfly knife.
(c) It is a defense to a prosecution under this section that at the time of the act of carrying a weapon:
(1) The person is in his or her own dwelling, place of business, or on property in which he or she has a possessory or proprietary interest;
(2) The person is a law enforcement officer, correctional officer, or member of the armed forces acting in the course and scope of his or her official duties;
(3) The person is assisting a law enforcement officer, correctional officer, or member of the armed forces acting in the course and scope of his or her official duties pursuant to the direction or request of the law enforcement officer, correctional officer, or member of the armed forces;
(4) The person is carrying a weapon when upon a journey, unless the journey is through a commercial airport when presenting at the security checkpoint in the airport or is in the person's checked baggage and is not a lawfully declared weapon;
(5) The person is a licensed security guard acting in the course and scope of his or her duties;
(6) The person is hunting game with a handgun that may be hunted with a handgun under rules and regulations of the Arkansas State Game and Fish Commission or is en route to or from a hunting area for the purpose of hunting game with a handgun;
(7) The person is a certified law enforcement officer; or
(8) The person is in a motor vehicle and the person has a license to carry a concealed weapon pursuant to § 5-73-301 et seq.
(d) (1) Any person who carries a weapon into an establishment that sells alcoholic beverages is guilty of a misdemeanor and subject to a fine of not more than two thousand five hundred dollars ($2,500) or imprisonment for not more than one (1) year, or both.
(2) Otherwise, carrying a weapon is a Class A misdemeanor.

The shortest distance in case law that I've found regarding a "Journey" is 15 miles from a 1908 State Supreme Court decision. In todays mobile society that may not be accepted. The intent of a journey is that a person is traveling into unfamiliar territory where he/she cannot anticipate and avoid hazards. A journey defense does not apply to those areas were a person travels on a regular basis.
 
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Pa. transport law is that without a carry permit, the pistol and the ammo must be in 2 seperate compartments.(center consol-glovebox) ; (pistol in holster-ammo in center consol) I'm not too sure in your state though. sry if It don't help
 
Here's the full statute:

5-73-120. Carrying a weapon.

(a) A person commits the offense of carrying a weapon if he or she possesses a handgun, knife, or club on or about his or her person, in a vehicle occupied by him or her, or otherwise readily available for use with a purpose to employ the handgun, knife, or club as a weapon against a person.
(b) As used in this section:
(1) “Club” means any instrument that is specially designed, made, or adapted for the purpose of inflicting serious physical injury or death by striking, including a blackjack, billie, and sap;
(2) “Handgun” means any firearm with a barrel length of less than twelve inches (12") that is designed, made, or adapted to be fired with one (1) hand; and
(3) (A) “Knife” means any bladed hand instrument that is capable of inflicting serious physical injury or death by cutting or stabbing.
(B) “Knife” includes a dirk, sword or spear in a cane, razor, ice pick, throwing star, switchblade, and butterfly knife.
(c) It is a defense to a prosecution under this section that at the time of the act of carrying a weapon:
(1) The person is in his or her own dwelling, place of business, or on property in which he or she has a possessory or proprietary interest;
(2) The person is a law enforcement officer, correctional officer, or member of the armed forces acting in the course and scope of his or her official duties;
(3) The person is assisting a law enforcement officer, correctional officer, or member of the armed forces acting in the course and scope of his or her official duties pursuant to the direction or request of the law enforcement officer, correctional officer, or member of the armed forces;
(4) The person is carrying a weapon when upon a journey, unless the journey is through a commercial airport when presenting at the security checkpoint in the airport or is in the person's checked baggage and is not a lawfully declared weapon;
(5) The person is a licensed security guard acting in the course and scope of his or her duties;
(6) The person is hunting game with a handgun that may be hunted with a handgun under rules and regulations of the Arkansas State Game and Fish Commission or is en route to or from a hunting area for the purpose of hunting game with a handgun;
(7) The person is a certified law enforcement officer; or
(8) The person is in a motor vehicle and the person has a license to carry a concealed weapon pursuant to § 5-73-301 et seq.
(d) (1) Any person who carries a weapon into an establishment that sells alcoholic beverages is guilty of a misdemeanor and subject to a fine of not more than two thousand five hundred dollars ($2,500) or imprisonment for not more than one (1) year, or both.
(2) Otherwise, carrying a weapon is a Class A misdemeanor.

The shortest distance in case law that I've found regarding a "Journey" is 15 miles from a 1908 State Supreme Court decision. In todays mobile society that may not be accepted. The intent of a journey is that a person is traveling into unfamiliar territory where he/she cannot anticipate and avoid hazards. A journey defense does not apply to those areas were a person travels on a regular basis.
__________________
All that is neccessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
Edmund Burke
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He doesn't want to read all that, he just wants a yes or no.:rolleyes:

My answer is yes or no.:D
 
Pa. transport law is that without a carry permit, the pistol and the ammo must be in 2 seperate compartments.(center consol-glovebox) ; (pistol in holster-ammo in center consol) I'm not too sure in your state though. sry if It don't help
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That is incorrect for PA. You must have a license unless you are going to/from one of the exempted locations in Title 18, Chap. 61, Subsection 6106(b). If you aren't going to/from those locations and you do not have a LTCF, you cannot have a "firearm" in a vehicle at all.
 
Hook686 said:
If he only wants a yes, or no, why does he not call his local county sheriff ?
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Because LEO are not law experts. Many times they give wrong legal opinions and issue citations wrongfully, ESPECIALLY in the area of firearms carry/possession.

This website:
http://www.opencarry.org/ar.html

says:
Firearms may be openly carried in cars only with a permit OR while traveling.
 
He doesn't want to read all that, he just wants a yes or no.

My answer is yes or no.
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O.K., Here's the short answer. It's no unless he's on a journey which he may have to raise as a defense, in court, after he's been arrested and charged. If he loses he's only looking at a maximum of one year in jail and a $1000.00 to $2500.00 fine.
 
So, it sounds to me like the original poster is out of luck...until

he or she reaches 21 and can get a concealed / permit...

on a side note... contrary to what most folks will tell you... I've found that you can get good advise via the internet if you ask in the right place and look closely at the answers.... yes, you will get bad advise too but those that have good advise will usually give you reference to where that comes from...

in contrast, as mentioned, the sheriff or other local LEO might not have a clue. I've even found this true if you pay for advise from a lawyer and it can even be just as bad from a judge.... which is really scary if you think about it.
 
Scary ? Perhaps, but then I suggest asking those sources simply because they are the ones you will be dealing with. The LEO arrests you, even if he misunderstands the law. That will cost you. You will be arrested. You will need an attorney that may not understnd fully the law. That will cost you. You will go before a judge, that may not fully understand the law. That will cost you.

Bottom line: I suggest asking the local LEO, as he/she will be the start of the whole scenario. If he is going to arrest you if you do (A), even if you KNOW you are right, why do (A) if it is going to cost you a great deal in time and money ?
 
Hook686 said:
Scary ? Perhaps, but then I suggest asking those sources simply because they are the ones you will be dealing with. The LEO arrests you, even if he misunderstands the law. That will cost you. You will be arrested. You will need an attorney that may not understnd fully the law. That will cost you. You will go before a judge, that may not fully understand the law. That will cost you.

Bottom line: I suggest asking the local LEO, as he/she will be the start of the whole scenario. If he is going to arrest you if you do (A), even if you KNOW you are right, why do (A) if it is going to cost you a great deal in time and money ?
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So, the bottom line is, according to this, no one should engage in perfectly legal activity because some misinformed, untrained, or just plain arrogant cop might arrest me for it? Like when the cop told me I can't open carry in Washington state because he got a MWAG call? You mean like that?

You mean like that guy in Ohio a while back.... what was his name.... Terry? On October 31, 1963, while on a downtown beat which he had been patrolling for many years, Cleveland Police Department detective Martin McFadden saw two men, John W. Terry and Richard Chilton, standing on a street corner and acting in a way the officer thought suspicious. You mean don't do anything like him that a cop might arrest you for?
 
NavyLT if you want to be an example, you go right ahead. I have not found LEO, judges, or juries particulary friendly when it comes to gun related cases in California. They do however cost a bunch to deal with.
 
Hook686 said:
NavyLT if you want to be an example, you go right ahead. I have not found LEO, judges, or juries particulary friendly when it comes to gun related cases in California. They do however cost a bunch to deal with.
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I have. Somebody has got to do it because there are obviously those that won't and depend on others to stand up for their rights for them.
 
It didn't have to go to court. A letter to the police chief took care of the problem. The point is, I was not afraid to stand up to a arrogant COP who chose to attempt to force compliance through the use of intimidation. A right not exercised is a right lost.

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=23861&forum_id=55
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=23871&forum_id=55
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=23884&forum_id=55

For those that advocate simple compliance with all of LEO's wishes regardless of how it violates your rights, at what point will enough be enough?
 
Depending on the manner of the complaint called in to 9-1-1, you could've been lawfully arrested and charged with a crime:

RCW 9.41.270
Weapons apparently capable of producing bodily harm — Unlawful carrying or handling — Penalty — Exceptions.

(1) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.

(2) Any person violating the provisions of subsection (1) above shall be guilty of a gross misdemeanor. If any person is convicted of a violation of subsection (1) of this section, the person shall lose his or her concealed pistol license, if any. The court shall send notice of the revocation to the department of licensing, and the city, town, or county which issued the license.

(3) Subsection (1) of this section shall not apply to or affect the following:

(a) Any act committed by a person while in his or her place of abode or fixed place of business;

(b) Any person who by virtue of his or her office or public employment is vested by law with a duty to preserve public safety, maintain public order, or to make arrests for offenses, while in the performance of such duty;

(c) Any person acting for the purpose of protecting himself or herself against the use of presently threatened unlawful force by another, or for the purpose of protecting another against the use of such unlawful force by a third person;

(d) Any person making or assisting in making a lawful arrest for the commission of a felony; or

(e) Any person engaged in military activities sponsored by the federal or state governments.
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The cop can lawfully arrest you and let the court sort it out. After booking the CDO might be allowed come pick you up, in lieu of bail, and deliver you to your CO, who might put you on restriction.

This is why it is unwise to carry openly, even when lawful, when you can lawfully carry concealed. You attract attention to yourself (drunks, druggies, psychos, brazen gang members, armed criminals, ignorant cops, etc.) and you lose any tactical advantage of surprise.

You're lucky the reporting party reported the complaint in the manner that he/she did. (If you're so arrested then have your attorney immediately request a subpoena for the 9-1-1 call center's recording of the complaint.)

I was a reserve police officer with Bremerton PD. I'm ex-Navy and I've had a Washington CWL/CPL continuously since 1984.

Cheers!
 
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Mr. Dodson,

I am afraid that you, and officers who think like you, are mistaken regarding 9.41.270. And that is exactly one of the reasons why we open carry, is to educate.

You will notice, please, the word AND in section (1). So let us examine why you are wrong on this one.

(1) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.
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1. "In a manner"...manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety...

A firearm carried in a holster is NOT in a manner that either exhibits and intent to intimidate nor warrants alarm. The word is WARRANTS alarm. The Washington State Supreme Court has on numerous occasions ruled that a holstered firearm (and even in some cases, a firearm carried in the hand) does not WARRANT alarm, regardless of whether it causes another person to be alarmed or not.

2. "under circumstances"...

Again, a firearm carried in a holster during the normal activities of life that persons engage in is not "under circumstances". Again the Washington State Supreme Court has made this abundantly clear.

3. "at a time and place"...

Again, a firearm carried in a holster during normal hours where a person might be expected to be is not "at a time and place". Eating dinner in a restaurant, during business hours is not "at a time and place". In a convenience store at two in the morning is not "at a time and place" if that convenience is open then.

Notice the word "AND". All three elements must be met above - 1., 2., AND 3. in order to violate the statute. Openly carrying a firearm in a holster during normal day to day activities does not meet ANY of the elements of 9.41.270, let alone all three as required.

Apparently, when you were a reserve officer in the Bremerton PD you should have paid closer attention to your training. It's cops like you that will pick at law abiding citizens doing nothing wrong that law abiding citizens need to start standing up to and say, "enough is enough".

I took an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States against ALL enemies both foreign AND DOMESTIC. There is no greater threat to the Constitution at this moment other than the RKBA. I open carry every day as one method of upholding my oath. It's too bad that as a reserve officer in Bremerton you did not pay close attention to your oath either.
 
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