Carry positions?!

wow

So they're a lot of different opinions, the crossdraw is not an option for me. Although I would and actually will try it out just for kicks. But the very sight of a firearm in Miami and people are already on their cell phones calling the police. It's extremely strict on the "concealed" part. Not even a buldge. I carry full size and I'm fit so the butt of the gun sticks out a little bit, sometimes I have to wear random stuff sometimes I don't.

So all this said, I guess it's just basically personal preference. I carry 75% of the time at 1:00 and 25% of the time at 4:30....All depends I guess. Should look into some more IWB holsters.

(off topic)
I love carrying my 1911 when I do, but 7+1 in the chamber doesn't beat my
G22 w/ 15+1 in the chamber. Just saying lol and the 1911 HAS to be at 1:00!
 
I carry at 1 o'clock...the "appendix" position has a few advantages over the "traditional" 4 o'clock-ish position.

However, it is critical that you be EXTREMELY vigilant about finger off the trigger. If you have a ND while reholstering a gun carried in the appendix position, it's very possible that you will put a round into your femoral artery instead of just putting a crease in your ass like you would with 4 o'clock carry.
 
For larger pistols: 3:00 IWB with a generous forward kant; this method is used for "larger" pistols like Lightweight Commander, 4'' Kimber or Glock 23. I'm going to want to be able to lean forward as much as getting something out of a cart, or getting a drink from a fountain without printing. If clothing won't pass this test....

Appendix carry: something the size of a 3'' Kimber, or Glock 27 is always going to get appendix carry. This is my #1 used method. It's convienent because I wear a kydex clip on holster and it meets my anal anti-printing requirement with more (which is literally less) clothing.

Smartcarry: becoming a favorite for hot weather. I can easily hide the Kimber 3'' or Glock 27 plus an extra magazine with only gym shorts and a t-shirt.
 
Not a fan of appendix carry, because if trouble started at contact range, it would be a horrible position for a struggle over the gun.

Not a fan of SOB carry because of injury potential to spine in a fall.

Crossdraw or shoulder work well for extended time in a vehicle.

Pocket is ok for walking / standing, but hard to access while seated.

I prefer 4:00 IWB or OWB (jacket weather), but also use shoulder, crossdraw, or pocket depending on the day and planned activities.
 
I see, so I'm not the only freak who does appendix carry..I felt alone in the world with that. Police Officers I know in dade county carry while off duty at 1:00 I should ask them why...lol

Femoral artery? :eek: that's a scary thought....I'm huge on "finger off the trigger" until the right moment...But accidents do happen, and a .40 corbon or hydrashock hitting me down there would end my life...I don't wanna talk about the .45 corbon or hornady :barf: at that thought... thanks guys...I got a lot to think about. I tried getting used to 4:00 but doesn't feel right.
 
MLeake said:
Not a fan of appendix carry, because if trouble started at contact range, it would be a horrible position for a struggle over the gun.
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Actually I prefer appendix carry in this type of encounter. Having it up in front allows either hand to protect the gun. I've also found that it's easier to draw during a fight from this position. YMMV...
 
Kenpo

I agree, I've tried many times with the G22 (empty, of course) drawing quickly from 1:00 and 4:00 I feel more efficient and natural with 1:00 for some reason...I guess if it works for me I should just stick with it?
 
My daily carry weapon is a Rossi 462 (2" SS .357) and I always carry at the 10:00 position (crossdraw for right-handed). In my opinion this gives me the most natural drawing motion and allows me to carry my reloads on my right side, which puts them in the proper position for reloading a revolver...I hold the weapon in my left hand and access the reloads with my right hand. This carry also works better when sitting in a vehicle, at least for me. When I'm working, I wear my XD-40 at 3:00 (strong side) and my Rossi goes in an Uncle Mikes ankle holster as my back-up.
 
3:30/8:30. I carry crossdraw if I'm hiking, as I find it very difficult to draw with a backpack on from a strong side holster. Crossdraw doesn't conceal well for me however, so strong side IWB is my usual method. Appendix carry feels very unnatural for me and you can't use it with a full size gun as the barrel jabs into your leg when you sit (for me anyway).
 
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KenpoTex...

... have you tried those drills with partners who know how to do weapon take-aways?

Just curious.

It seems to me the weapon necessarily has to sweep your body for an appendix draw, which creates a pretty major window of vulnerability if you are at all behind the 8ball to start out.

Bought a blue plastic Glock at the local police supply store last week, for experimentation's sake, but haven't been able to get any local TFL types to try it out with. (Had one lined up, but he had a car wreck last week...)

So, anybody in NW GA interested in playing with carry positions, takeaways, and retention between now and Sunday?
 
I used to carry IWB at approx 0400, but transitioned several months ago to AIWB at approx 1230. I'm quite happy with the arrangement.

And I too, being someone who likes to think he puts in the work, find the position to be more defensible and accessible in a tussle.
 
MLeake said:
KenpoTex...
... have you tried those drills with partners who know how to do weapon take-aways?

Just curious.

It seems to me the weapon necessarily has to sweep your body for an appendix draw, which creates a pretty major window of vulnerability if you are at all behind the 8ball to start out.
Click to expand...

Regarding the question of whether I've tried it: Yes, I have. Aside from a fair amount of time with training partners & students, I've also taken a class that specifically focuses on gunfighting at 0-5 feet and incorporates the use of Simunitions guns and training partners who are doing their best to foil any attempt you make. Think of it as grappling with guns thrown into the mix (which is exactly what it boils down to).

As to your second point (being behind the 8-ball). It is pretty commonly accepted (at least by instructors that are worth listening to) that if you find yourself in a fight at "bad breath distance," your first goal has to be gaining and maintaining some sort of dominant position. Once this is accomplished, then you can deploy your tool of choice (gun, knife, whatever). If you go for your weapon before you have achieved positional dominance you have a high risk of losing your weapon or never getting it out...regardless of where it's carried.

I not trying to pass myself off as any kind of authority on the subject, I've just found that the appendix position requires a slightly smaller "window of time" than the 4 o'clock position. That said, I know of guys who feel the opposite is true. However, they still adhere to the "position before acquisition" doctrine.
 
I'm with JM on this one

I've been most comfortable with the crossdraw (approx 10 O'clock) for the past 30 years. With a high-ride holster, the grips of the gun are both well concealed and easily acquired. Plus nothing looks more harmless in public that casually crossing your arms across your gut, with the strong hand just inside the cover garment.
 
KenpoTex...

I agree with you totally on not drawing while off-balance or jammed; you could probably find a couple threads I've started in the past on why CCW folk who don't practice MA might benefit from doing at least some training. You'd be amazed by the numbers who think there would not be any value; they have a gun, after all.

Still others feel they are too old, or too out of shape.

My take has been that they don't need to be Chuck Norris or Jeff Speakman, but that anybody would benefit from gaining some tactile perspective of how somebody can jam them up, and how they can escape.

I won't claim expert status either, just a lowly nikkyu in aikido, and serious dabbler in atemi-ryu jujutsu. Had a couple years of kenpo, many years ago, and maybe a year of arnis (knife and stick).

But even without serious expertise, I find that in near-range drills, with training weapons, it's not hard to take weapons away from people that haven't had exposure to this kind of thing.

In fact, they normally find themselves with the muzzle in their own throat, before the weapon gets taken.

Doesn't take all that long to give them at least a shot at preventing that, but it does require a re-calibration in how they move.

You've probably seen that most focus on the weapon, and not on the aggressor, when the weapon is threatened or grabbed. Most stop moving their bodies, and try to use hands and arms only.

There's much more power in moving from the feet and hips, and pivoting the body.

There's much better chance of beating the attacker if his own center and balance are attacked and upset.

Most people never even try that, in my experience. They fixate, and they lose. On the mat, they lose a plastic weapon, or a wooden knife. On the street, the loss would be more.
 
Key thing on either crossdraw or appendix: you have to use a holster with an incredibly "high and tight" ride for any kind of substantial gun. For something like a snubby 38, no, you can tuck it deep.

My gun is the same size as a Colt SAA with a 4.75" barrel, and weighs 42oz. HIGH and tight works, if I'm trying for concealment!

Anybody remember "Walker Texas Ranger's" low-and-loose crossdraw? Two problems: concealment for one, although in a detective's case wouldn't matter. Second and more serious: that sort of rig is very fast if you're a "hip shooter", but if your primary fire is going to be sighted or at least eye-level semi-sighted, a low crossdraw with the barrel closer to horizontal won't help you "launch the gun up to eye level".

On my rig, if I look down I'm staring right smack at the rear sight, back of the barrel pointed right up to my eyeball. So on draw I'm going to launch the gun upwards and then around upper chest to neck level transition to barrel-out and start the outwards movement to a proper hold. On the way "out" away from my face, I'm lining the sights up while the gun is still in motion and I'm ready to fire the moment I'm locked into a Weaver. This is classic "modern technique" shooting, never mind the dang thing is basically a replica 1873 Colt :).

Cocking happens more or less as the barrel clears leather, in case I have to rotate outwards early for a "too close for sights" mess. Finger goes on trigger keyed to that outward rotation, whether it happens "high" (preferred) or "low" (emergency close-range point shooting).
 
Sounds like we're on the same page now...

MLeake said:
I agree with you totally on not drawing while off-balance or jammed; you could probably find a couple threads I've started in the past on why CCW folk who don't practice MA might benefit from doing at least some training. You'd be amazed by the numbers who think there would not be any value; they have a gun, after all.
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It doesn't amaze me...it disgusts me :cool:

Mleake said:
You've probably seen that most focus on the weapon, and not on the aggressor, when the weapon is threatened or grabbed. Most stop moving their bodies, and try to use hands and arms only.

...
Most people never even try that, in my experience. They fixate, and they lose. On the mat, they lose a plastic weapon, or a wooden knife. On the street, the loss would be more.
Click to expand...
Yep...most people carrying guns (including most cops) would be S.O.L. if they were attacked by a determined assailant who had some idea of what they were doing.
 
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