Carry/Accuracy Tradeoff in 9mm?

F

FScott

New member
It makes sense that the smaller the pistol, the more difficult to shoot it accurately (sight radius, recoil and sight picture reacquisition, etc...). It's impractical for most of us to tote around a full size semi auto (for me it is, at least).

There have been several posts recently regarding several CCW 9mm, specifically the Kel Tec P9 and Taurus PT-111 (generally the smallest. lightest and lowest cost options) regarding the long trigger pull (throw the CZ100 in for good measure), and how that may impact combat accuracy. Specifically that mastering the trigger in a nice weaver stance at the range is one thing, but trying to transfer that trigger pull along with greater recoil into an IDPA or other more realistic setting greatly reduces even the combat range accuracy that an average shooter can expect (I practice 2-4 times/month, but only at a range).

Do games like IDPA matches more accurately represent what we should expect if we're forced to use deadly force outside the home? Do you recommend participating in IDPA or similar matches to gain proficiency? If so, does it make sense to try to look at a slightly larger frame to gain accuracy and performance? What is the best "compromise" 9mm for concealability and accuracy? Is there such an option under $450? I'm thinking that the Steyr M9 at current prices is a very attractive package of quality, features, size and performance.

Thanks in advance...
 
Take a look at Kahr. You can find the polymer series P9 in the low $400's. They are very light, easy to shoot, reliable, and are of good quality. They present the right trade-off for me.

M.
 
I own a Steyr M9 and I love the way it shoots, feels and it's not that heavy. I prefer it over a Glock in 9mm, due to its better sights, trigger and the grip fits my hand better. For something smaller, a Kahr 9mm is a good small and reliable 9mm. I've not shot the Taurus nor the Keltec 9mm.
 
Just to complicate matters

I ran by a local shop at lunch and they have several police trade in S&W 3913s, all in good shape, priced at $310 (a lot less than my $450 budget). Nice size package and fits my smaller hands. Marginal grips.

Generally well regarded and since I can't seem to get another local dealer who advertises Steyr's to actually stock one so I can see how it fits it seems like a viable option. The only thing I did not like was the safety operates opposite of my Taurus, Browning, and Star pistols. I did like the fact that it had a safety, however.

Thoughts?
 
I have to call it a tie as far as what I'd use and/or recommend. I'd use either the Glock 19 or a CZ 75, either the Compact (all steel) or PCR (alloy frame). To me, the only thing keeping the CZ from coming in ever so slightly ahead the Glock 19 would be holster availability but that could change in the near future. Lots of companies seem to be tooling up to make holsters for the CZ.

A used 19 would fit your budget and I got a brand new in box CZ 75 Compact 9mm yesterday for $389, which is in your range as well. Either pistol would be a fine carry or competition piece, in my opinion. I hope to find come local competition shoots soon and start getting involved. I think the action shooting type events are far better self defense training methods than punching paper from 1 to 25 yards untimed. :)

R6
 
Before my eyes got so old I shot matches in USPSA. This was several years ago but and they were starting to setup street siturations for matches. I carried a Kahr K9 then and it worked out well for me. I carry the Kahr P9 now.
 
FScott, Jump on it !! The 3913 is a damn fine weapon. I have one and it is very accurate,very reliable,very easy to carry and conceal. Overall it's one of the finest single stack 9mm pistols available..And that's a great price !!!
 
Try a Glock 26. I find it to be MORE ACCURATE than the larger Glock 17 and Glock 19. I am not alone either, many people over at Glock talk have the same results! It is really an amazing little pistol, in that it groups very well despite a short sight radius. I think if you find a used one, you can get it for under $450 (which I think you said was your limit).
 
The Kahr K9 is a VERY nice gun to shoot and alarmingly accurate. I tried one on a lark and was impressed. Very nice light DA trigger. The P9 should be just as good only lighter (and with more recoil). If you can carry a double-stack then the CZ-75 PCR looks REALLY good. Very good ergonomics and a superb trigger. The SigSauer P228 is also really good (I owned one) but a bit on the bigger side, as is the single-stack P225, and SigSauer DA triggers don't feel nearly as good to me as the Kahr or CZs. A P239 wouldn't be a bad choice either, but to me it feels kind of funny and is a good bit bukier than a K9/P9. Also shot a Glock 26, it was good but very blocky. I'd probably go with the K9 if I was going for a small 9mm for CCW.
 
CZ_

I agree with you. The baby Glock 26 is AMAZINGLY accurate in my hands. I believe it is a combination of the ergonomic grip and the trigger which is cleverly designed to avoid flinching.

Regards,
George
In sunny Arizona
 
I have no problem with GLocks mini's. I carry a 33 off duty and for back up and I can shoot it nearly as well as my full size glock 31. It does recoil more of coarse and its stout but not un shootable. THe 26 is downright easy to shoot well. I have not tried the Kahrs due to a long time hatred of long trigger DAO designs.
PAT
 
COMPETING w/CARRY GUN

IPSC/USPSA and/or IDPA (recommend both) will teach gun-handling skills that carry over into the real world.

If you compete to learn (and have fun) your skills WILL increase. Competing with a "non-competitive" gun just means not winning a GAME.
Suggest USPSA clubs near you now..............
 
.355sigfan,

I don't care for heavy DA triggers at all either but the one on the K9 seemed very nice and smooth. I didn't expect to like it either (9mm DAO is about the last thing I've been interested in lately) but was impressed.
 
You won't have to compromise accuracy with any of these guns which will all suit you well. CZ-75 PCR, HK P7M8, Walther P-5, Sig 225. They're all concealable and accurate.
 
G26

I'll second the G26 as a great small carry pistol; very accurate, reliable lot of holsters and sights available.

Less percieved recoil for me than the 19; +P rounds seem unremarkable especially with the pearce grip extensions.
Short trigger resets mean quicker follow-up shots.

Regarding IDPA, shooting the drills with a practice group has helped my quick shooting skills quite a bit. In the real world, shooting at a red bulleyes isn't going to happen so why practice it. IDPA prepares you for shooting accurately and quickly--something that you'll need in a real world confrontation
 
Buy the 3913. At that price, it's a steal....I myself HATE S&W Autos, but I ADORE the 3913...if only I could find a used one....
 
IDPA skills carry over into the real world. The scenarios that they set up may look a little hokey but they do teach you skills you may one day need.

I never gave much thought about how to shoot from the inside of an auto, exiting one or getting in one. It's not as easy as one may think. IDPA has such set ups. Likewise, I didn't give much thought as to multiple tarets (BGs) at close range, let alone backing away from the confrontation. Shooting from cover (around corners such as doorways) is another skill that is not inherent. How about several stationary targets with one set in motion.

The most extreme scenario I have encountered in IDPA, so far, is the old "saloon and multiple targets" (we also have cowboy action shooting at the range) including a swinger and "hostages". Although I probably will never need to clear a house of six or more people, prowlers sometimes run in pairs and now with the terrorist movement, one never knows.

I highly recommend the IDPA shoots. Use a service weapon, preferably one you will carry. Between matches, I do practice some with multiple weapons as I switch off according to the seasons. Go with a spirit of learning and recreation, not to beat someone else's score, and you should have loads of fun as well as practice that may be of use in today's world.

Lots of luck and happy shooting!
 
I won't be endeared by many for this but....

I picked up a Smith 3953 which may have been made before the agreement as I research the pistol further NIB for $440.00 with tax. They are hurting due to the boycott and thus the steal.

The thing has the Novak sight system which is the best IMHO. Easy to pick up, precisely machined and rust proof virtually. The smith is so well machined and it has the checkered front strap and back strap not to mention the machined bottom front of the slide that fits your thumb and forefinger perfectly.

The width of the pistol is excellent for concealed carry. Funny thing as much as smith gets lambasted on TFL, every pistol I have shot has been very accurate, felt good and been very reliable. I know LEO's who have nothing but good to say about them as well.

After picking up the 3953, I lost the Glock. Yes Glock is the paragon for toughness and reliability but it feels lick a brick to me and I still don't like the trigger system.

Another good 9mm concealed carry weapon is the Sig 239. Great shooter and durable enough. 9mm? I have settled into it. It is cheap to shoot, accurate and with proper placement, it can do the job. Consider this as well, there is an almost infinite supply of this rouind theworld over. I can control the 9mm and I am gradually realizing just how practical the round is.

I can't say enough good about the double-action only S&W 3953. I hope that soon smith will revoke the terms of the agreement. In the meantime they continue to support shooting sports sponsoring practically all major shooting events-----------------something many other makers do not. This says alot to me since they are hurting for money.

Handguns have lost their glitter to me as I become an avid wing shooter------------------dove, quail, duck and pheasants. The 3953 fills the niche for a self defense weapon as I focus more on shotgunning.
 
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