Carjacking scenario -- tactics?

Aguila Blanca said:
You must be nearly as old as I am.

That technique used to work with rear-wheel drive cars (if the engine was powerful enough to break the traction of the rear tires). It won't work if the car/vehicle is front wheel drive -- which a great many cars and even SUVs are these days.
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I’m turning 40 (hexadecimal :) ) soon.
Most embassy vehicles were Suburbans as were the vehicles of anyone that could spell “Security “.

Yea, you could clear out a street pretty quickly with a swinging Sub. (Not that I would have any first hand experience with that) ;)
Not to mention that most drivers in Asian countries get the heck out of the way when a Sub is swinging.
 
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labnoti said:
A commonplace racket is to wash windows at an intersection and ask, expect, or demand money for the service. You're stopped in traffic, a guy starts washing your windshield, what are you going to do? He starts banging on the window for money. What do you do? I have to admit though, jumping in the car is even bolder. But yeah, keep the doors locked and windows up. If you're in a Jeep with no top, tough luck.
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My late wife was from a South American country that still has a large gap between the middle class and the really poor. It is a normal experience when driving in the capitol city to be approached by the freelance windscreen washer guys. However, it is universally understood that if the driver raises his/her index finger (NOT the third finger, a.k.a. the "rigid digit") and wags it back and forth, that means "No thanks." Down there, "No" still means "no" and is readily accepted by the wandering washers.
 
Good thoughts, thanks all.

I haven't traveled much internationally. But enough to realize that one major risk factor is simply not knowing what counts as "normal" for another location or culture. Avoiding the situations is far better than having to fight, beg or pay your way out of them. I just turned 40 also (still just decimal!). At 30 I could take on someone and at least have a good chance of getting out. At 40 my lower back and both knees have decided they don't like me and I'm less confident. Add another (or two) guys to the equation and I'm fairly well screwed, and ain't running too well either. I think sometimes there's a certain arrogance/stupidity that can come when people start carrying, as though having a few rounds under their belt line suddenly makes them impervious to injury. Avoidance is always the best plan.

Thankfully our local tour guides (a) knew where they were driving and (b) explained to us how the local hustles worked, and how forcefully you have to say NO before someone guilts you into spending $50 on a bead bracelet. I did give some guy $25 for a bottle of local BBQ sauce, but that was because he was part vendor, part comedian who also took a bunch of pictures for us and I figured he'd earned it :)
 
Street Hustles

Sadly if one would like to practice their responses to street hustles, just head down to one of my very favorite cities.
San Francisco is the capital for panhandling, I've experienced more hustles there than anywhere else. A select few missed their calling, their acting chops should get them roles on TV.
Whether in your car, or out and about on foot count on a hustle or two.
 
I wouldn't get too caught up in the analyticals of this venue or that. The same principals of self protection generally apply.

door and locks are intended to be used
distance is your friend ( drive away)
pay attention and be prepared to defend
maintain a healthy suspicion of unknown people and unknown circumstances.
don't get boxed in and always allow for a much space to maneuver as possible.
not every adverse situation is a GUN situation ( don't always rely on the gun)




Just speaking for myself, I am not likely to allow someone to stop me in the road. If I do have to stop, I will immediately put the car in reverse and move. If they try to get into my car when I am stopped, I will drive away. Certainly common sense must be applied but I am speaking broadly regarding an obvious criminal attack.
 
Jamaica has carry permits. My Buddy, an IPSC shooter, carries all the time. He is always asking us to visit, great shot as well.
When I first obtained a pistol license in Florida. My Son was a Citizen, we, my Wife and I are now as well. Before 911! So when I crossed the border at Detroit, first chance I had, up the trunk, Gun out and 14 rounds in, one in breach. First carry was a BHP.

When going from the Bridge exit, weird back streets to get to I 75 South.
Now lost, looking up at what appeared to be Hwy 75. But I was below it, crappy street. This trip I was on my own.

Stopped at the end of the Street, stop sign. Tall young black guy, nice suit, leather briefcase, turned window on passenger side down, 4". Asked for directions to I 75, he put his case down, smiled, tried to shove his hand in, other hand on top of the glass, attempted to push it down.

My Browning was under my right thigh, hand on the grip. I brought it up, to the window, he squealed like a cat when you step on its tail, stepped back, fell down! I think he fell over his case.

Took a while but I found the road! That was a long time ago, but I will not forget that shock! After a while, my right leg was shaking, drove left-footed for a while.
 
Carjacking was a likely scenario in many Third World nations. It was especially prevalent in Central and South America.

Good advice about locking your door and maintaining situational awareness. That is your best defense.

Make sure you carry your weapon in such a manner you can access it while seated. Think about the fact the the carjacker will have the jump on you so plan to wait for his attention to be directed somewhere else. Being right handed and having your pistol on your strong side leaves it in the same location as your seatbelt release.

Be aware you can shoot thru glass as well as shoot while seated pistol over your shoulder and behind you. I recommend practicing both. If you do not know the techniques then take a class.

Good time is the transition as you exit and he enters the vehicle. Be aware that he might know that and try to strike you to keep you disorientated during that transition. Be cognizant, block, get out the way, and look for your moment he is distracted to draw.

Most importantly, practice your draw and engagement. Practice, Practice, Practice.

You should be able to draw and holster your weapon without looking at it or searching for it. Your eyes need to remain on the threat not your pistol.

If you cannot do basic skills then your CCW is more of a liability than a self defense tool.
 
I met young honeymooning couple who'd had a terrifying experience. They rented their own car, and ventured out to some remote spot trying to find a hiking trail. Down some windy, isolated side street, a man ran out in front of their slowly driving car and stopped them. He asked where they were going (and they told him), so he ran to the side, opened the back door and climbed in the car with them! Saying he had directions. So, terrified, they followed his directions. Thankfully for them, he actually did bring them to where they wanted to go -- but then demanded money for his service. They just gave him what was in their wallet and he went on his way.

He never threatened them overtly, never showed or suggested a weapon, they didn't argue or resist with their money, so I don't know if it even counts as robbery. But I've been wondering ever since, what I could have/should have done in such a scenario (beyond what I already did, which was not to venture out into unknown territory with bad directions, looking like a lost tourist!)
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This has always been a commonplace thing. Local 'guides' latch onto wealthy looking people and grab on hard. they don't commit any offense, but they always look for easy marks. People who will feel threatened or nervous, and afraid of rejecting his favors.

Imagine this. You're old, retired, wise. You see an old couple going into a barbecue restaurant that you know is always full of violent biker thugs. I'd suggest to them that they move on to another place where the food is better and the clientele is safer. If I was a different guy, i'd offer to show them how to get there. maybe we would all winde up having memphis style ribs at the "blues bash", rather than boiled pork shoulder at "the shattered bone." A pushy tour guide in a port city will be less subtle
 
One other thing to add in regards to situational awareness and leaving your options open.

Never get closer to the vehicle in front of you so that you drive out should something happen. It is common in the third world for example for criminals to use motorcycles to get to their victims roadside.

When you park or stop always ensure you can see the entire rear tire of the vehicle in front of you. That is a quick rule of thumb that ensure you can clearance to get out from behind them if necessary.
 
davidsog said:
One other thing to add in regards to situational awareness and leaving your options open.

Never get closer to the vehicle in front of you so that you drive out should something happen. It is common in the third world for example for criminals to use motorcycles to get to their victims roadside.

When you park or stop always ensure you can see the entire rear tire of the vehicle in front of you. That is a quick rule of thumb that ensure you can clearance to get out from behind them if necessary.
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I had a driving instructor that used to give the same advice. I don't think he had security in mind, but more manuvering around disabled vehicles. Never thought of it this way. Good tip.

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distances is good common sense but don't let it create a false sense of security. distance is easily overcome and you don't control what others do. If the guy in front of you is part of it, he can easily back up. If you leave such a gap that you can drive around, its probably pretty easy for someone to nose another vehicle in the gap at an angle. People who target people in vehicles are not typically working alone.

For the most part, the whole "situational awareness" issue is a fallacy. Sure, you should pay attention but a person working alone without the aid of tech or a team is not likely going to be able to develop a meaningful awareness regarding their "situation" by relying solely on a primary 180 degree ( intermittent 360) single point observation at eye level. That said, you have no chance to thwart bad actors if you do not pay attention so, YES.. you should pay attention. Situational Awareness is a much larger endeavor altogether and I believe that most people are using the term improperly.


A persons "situations" encompasses a much larger area than the coffee shop they currently occupy. Again, you are not likely to get a handle on all that by yourself. Not unless you are using some impressive tech.
 
FireForged said:
distances is good common sense but don't let it create a false sense of security. distance is easily overcome and you don't control what others do. If the guy in front of you is part of it, he can easily back up. If you leave such a gap that you can drive around, its probably pretty easy for someone to nose another vehicle in the gap at an angle. People who target people in vehicles are not typically working alone.
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That's a very good point, and something I had not considered even when driving through neighborhoods that cause me to remember to leave escape space.
 
My daughter is a deep state liberal and a true lover of humanity. Cue the rolling eyes. The other day I drove past her apartment and saw a derelict hanging out by her parking lot. I said 'hmmm' and she said 'give it a rest dad, he's probably just tired'. There is an alley on the other side of the building near her entrance where I normally drop her off. Swung around the corner, stopped by the back entrance, and we talked for a few minutes before I left.

Whoa. The derelict from the front had circled around from the other side and started coming up the alley towards us. Got out and walked her to her door. Did he dumpster dive or look at the cars? No. He didn't do anything unusual. He was just a ragged man that was hanging around outside a parking garage, who left that parking garage to walk down an alley in a sort of rough area. If he had dug through the trash I would have felt more confident that he wasn't any sort of a criminal threat.

Yes, she would have walked right past him without thinking, and wouldn't have locked her doors as she drove past him. She always seems to believe that she is magically protected from the possible presence of bad guys.
 
briandg said:
Yes, she would have walked right past him without thinking, and wouldn't have locked her doors as she drove past him. She always seems to believe that she is magically protected from the possible presence of bad guys.
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Sounds like my daughter -- who has been mugged three times in three years at university.

Smart kid, but zero situational awareness.
 
Our little Jeep Cherokee locks all the doors at 15 MPH. AC is your friend.
I gave my Son advice when he was 18 YOA! Nothing good happens after midnight, in any City, anywhere!

He goes out for a meal, with his Wife, my Wife and I babysit. He Ubers. This way I don't worry too much. He is still my Lad, at 57 YOA. A Glock 43 lives in his back pocket. My 43X likes a nice snug holster a lot.

When we go out for Supper, my Wife and I. My limit is one glass of Red Wine. The French say it is good for you.

After the meal, I recover Jeep, pick her up at the door.
A terrible method I watch the Young Guys use. He presses door release, he enters the driver's door. His young Lady walks around the vehicle on her own, gets in the vehicle! A 10-second walk.

I pop the lock, me standing with my 75-year-old Lady at her door. Make sure she safely negotiates the step, hi heels and all. Lock door. Slam.
My door, me in, lock as I close the door. If I can, back in. Seat belts and go.

This method worked in Australia/England/The Continent/Canada/ and my last move. The good old USA! Of course, armed now.
 
I pop the lock, me standing with my 75-year-old Lady at her door. Make sure she safely negotiates the step, hi heels and all. Lock door. Slam.
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Like a proper gentleman. That's the way I was raised by my grandparents.

Chivalry is dead in the United States.
 
Chivalry is dead in the United States.
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No, but it's badly wounded. ;-)

How many shut the car off and pocket the keys when we escort our dear ones to the car door? If we don't we risk someone jumping into the driver seat and leaving with them and the car. Push button ignitions are even worse - no key required if there is a thingamajig in her purse or your nearby pocket.

My point isn't to criticize those who don't, but to point out that I'm not sure there is a completely risk-free way to go about this.
 
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