Cardboard tube "silencer?"

[dogtown tom]

Prof Young So I heard an old geezer talk about taping a cardboard tube from a roll of paper towels to the barrel of a 22LR gun and getting the same affect as an expensive suppressor. Could this be true?

Not only is he old, but he knows little about silencers.

big al hunter You know...I usually say don't try this at home...but in this case I say try it and let us know.

Do not pass Go without paying $200 and getting a tax stamp. Your advice would cause the OP to commit a violation of Federal law.

AK103K Ive seen a .22 pistol with a 2-liter pop bottle attached fired, and it works pretty well, for a few rounds anyway. As the hole in the end gets bigger, it gets louder. Its not suppressor quiet, but its pretty quiet.

A two liter plastic bottle would make a very effective silencer for a few rounds. Un fact there was an ad in Shotgun News for decades selling a threaded adapter to attach one to your barrel. The ad didn't mention the need to have a tax stamp.

JohnKSa Just be aware that without the proper licensing, the penalty for being caught experimenting with making silencers, even cheap, makeshift, possibly nonfunctional, silencers, is a significant amount of time in federal prison.

Not only firearms charges, but tax evasion as well.

Onward Allusion Completely asinine to be having a discussion on the legality of shooting through tires to dampen the report of a firearm. But then again, pretty much most ATF regs are that way.

No, ATF regs clearly don't restrict "shooting through tires".

SIGSHR A 45 ACP is a much better choice for a silenced handgun IMHO.

Never shot a .22 pistol with a silencer?

Taping a cardboard tube to a 22 ? It's the baffling inside the tube that does the silencing.

Then explain silencer designs that do not use baffles.

 

[AK103K]

A two liter plastic bottle would make a very effective silencer for a few rounds. Un fact there was an ad in Shotgun News for decades selling a threaded adapter to attach one to your barrel. The ad didn't mention the need to have a tax stamp.

The adapters I remember seeing in the SGN were a conversion for the MAC type threads to a pop bottle. And as you mentioned, there was no mention of a tax stamp that I remember.

Ive also seen 9mm shot through 2-liter bottles, and the results were nothing like a .22LR. No suppression that I noticed.

Back around the time they were selling those adapters in the SGN, there were also ads selling "parts" to "build your own" suppressor. One place was selling the tubes, the other the baffles. Rumor has it, ATF seized the shipping records of both places and did a little cross-referencing. Dont know if that is in fact true or not, but the ads werent listed for very long.

Then there was the old AR15 "lightning link" ad, I think they were asking something like $100, that ran for years. Kinda makes you wonder who was listing that one.

 

[FITASC]

Back around the time they were selling those adapters in the SGN, there were also ads selling "parts" to "build your own" suppressor. One place was selling the tubes, the other the baffles. Rumor has it, ATF seized the shipping records of both places and did a little cross-referencing. Dont know if that is in fact true or not, but the ads werent listed for very long.

I remember those as well; along with "kits" for the MAC series to make it full auto. Same scenario, one company sold one part, another sold some other parts; when put together, felony time!

 

[FrankenMauser]

The adapters I remember seeing in the SGN were a conversion for the MAC type threads to a pop bottle. And as you mentioned, there was no mention of a tax stamp that I remember.

I can't find a letter to cite; but I recall that the ATF has opined in the past that it isn't a legally a 'silencer' if it is destroyed when used.
It's been some time since I've seen that opinion, though. I believe the last time was when the Gamo 'Whisper', integrally-suppressed air gun, came out; and Gamo and the ATF explained that the biggest factor in its legality was that if the suppressor was somehow removed from the air gun and used on a firearm, it would be destroyed by the muzzle pressure.

The soda bottle adapter, however, might be something the ATF might view as a 'silencer' part - like they do when people have "solvent trap" adapters and oil filters in close proximity...

 

[dogtown tom]

FrankenMauser ….I can't find a letter to cite; but I recall that the ATF has opined in the past that it isn't a legally a 'silencer' if it is destroyed when used.

"destroyed when used" has never been an exemption to the National Firearms Act.

It's been some time since I've seen that opinion, though. I believe the last time was when the Gamo 'Whisper', integrally-suppressed air gun, came out; and Gamo and the ATF explained that the biggest factor in its legality was that if the suppressor was somehow removed from the air gun and used on a firearm, it would be destroyed by the muzzle pressure.

Integral is the key word here.

Are Paintball and/or Airgun Sound Suppressers NFA firearms?
The terms “firearm silencer” and “firearm muffler” mean any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication.

Numerous paintball and airgun silencers tested by ATF’s Firearms Technology Branch have been determined to be, by nature of their design and function, firearm silencers. Because silencers are NFA weapons, an individual wishing to manufacture or transfer such a silencer must receive prior approval from ATF and pay the required tax.

[26 U.S.C. 5845; 27 CFR 479.11]

If the portion of the Gamo was removeable, then it likely would be determined to me a firearm silencer.

A pretty good article from Pyramid Air: https://www.pyramydair.com/article/Airgun_silencers_What_s_the_big_deal_August_2006/32

 

[SIGSHR]

That big 45 ACP slug packs more wallop at low velocity than a 22.
40+ years ago a college buddy and I bought some of "those" books, went out in the woods in the Dark of the Evening...they all worked fine, as noted, they lack durability and are rather awkward. We discussed the potato silencer, never tried one, it seems you would have to bore a channel though one, otherwise it would obstruct the bore.

 

[MarkCO]

To answer the OPs question, no, it is not true.

While you "can" get some suppression by various makeshift means, they won't be the same as an actual suppressor. Also realize that the ATF takes a very hard line on suppressor manufacture. There are things that you just don't want to mess with unless you have the proper license. SIG and the ATF have been fighting over nuances on their product for a while. Some "muzzle devices" change the sound signature enough that the ATF classifies those items as suppressors while no reasonable person would agree they significantly suppress sound.

 

[FrankenMauser]

dogtown tom, I disagree with your arguments.
I'm still wrong, but it doesn't really matter.
I found an applicable case:
United States v. Webb (1995)
Webb was convicted of possession of unregistered firearms and firearms not identified by a serial number, based almost entirely on his intent to break the law by constructing a 'silencer' - not the actual material construction or viability of the devices. He was, however, given a reduced sentence, based on the material construction of the devices.

Devices in question?

the defendant made two suppressors from “[o]ld toilet paper tubes and stuffing from some old stuffed animals.”

There's more on that case, and I think the link I provided is from an appeal. But further information isn't hard to find once you have the right case.

 

[dogtown tom]

FrankenMauser dogtown tom, I disagree with your arguments.
I'm still wrong, but it doesn't really matter.

You disagree....but admit you are wrong?
I'm puzzled to say the least.

I found an applicable case:
United States v. Webb (1995)
Webb was convicted of possession of unregistered firearms and firearms not identified by a serial number, based almost entirely on his intent to break the law by constructing a 'silencer' - not the actual material construction or viability of the devices. He was, however, given a reduced sentence, based on the material construction of the devices.

Devices in question?

Quote:
the defendant made two suppressors from “[o]ld toilet paper tubes and stuffing from some old stuffed animals.”

There's more on that case, and I think the link I provided is from an appeal. But further information isn't hard to find once you have the right case.

Which has what to do with the OP?
"The geezer" claimed taping a cardboard tube from a roll of paper towels to the barrel of a 22LR gun and getting the same affect as an expensive suppressor"...….NO STUFFING. A simple cardboard tube taped to a firearm barrel will not likely do a darn thing.

 

[ThomasT]

I would doubt it. If you were to make a oil filter suppressor and shoot a standard velocity 22 out of it you would still get a bunch of noise and the super sonic crack of the bullets. If you were to shoot a sub sonic round out of the same filter it would be much quieter. So I don't believe a cardboard tube will do anything. I would think the old geezer left his hearing aids at home when he tried the tube. I hope you realize that making a homemade suppressor would be unlawful, pretty sure it is a NFA item.

The oil filter suppressors work far better than you might think. I know someone who made one and they are very functional. Even from a handgun.

 

[ThomasT]

I doubt the paper tube would work. Pressure will most likely rupture it. I tried firing a 22 pistol down a 12 foot long metal pipe to see if it would deaden the sound. It sounded like someone whacked the side of the pipe with a small hammer. So that didn't work.

I have shot a couple of suppressed guns and it was cool. For a while. One was a full auto Mac 11 with 30 round mag. I hated thumbing all those rounds in to see the mag emptied in just a couple of seconds. Anyway it satisfied my desire for a suppressed arm.

As mentioned a long barreled 22 rifle with the right ammo is pretty quiet. I have a Remington model 581(?) and a Marlin 39A and with standard, CB and shorts they are pretty silent with the 24" barrels they have.

I bought one of those oil filter adapters to actually use it as a gunk collector. When I got my only AR I decided to try it out to catch the cleaning stuff. I couldn't get the flash hider off so its unused. I paid over $30 for mine. Now you can get them on Ebay for less than $10.

Anyway if someday I ever end up with a 22 barrel that is threaded I may try it once. But if I do you will never hear about it here.

 

[FrankenMauser]

Which has what to do with the OP?
"The geezer" claimed taping a cardboard tube from a roll of paper towels to the barrel of a 22LR gun and getting the same affect as an expensive suppressor"...….NO STUFFING. A simple cardboard tube taped to a firearm barrel will not likely do a darn thing.

So you're arguing that some stuffed animal stuffing is really an important point, even though it's contained within a cardboard tube?

Are you just grasping for straws at this point, for the sake of argument? Or do you really believe that the stuffing somehow changes the structure of a cardboard tube, and makes it suddenly capable of holding up to the muzzle pressure of a firearm ... even though you don't believe that an empty tube will?

 

[Palidin TX]

The tube will do little besides direct the sound away from the shooter. It won't do squat to lower the DB's.

 

[Fishbed77]

There is one legal way to make a firearm "quieter", from the standpoint of the shooter, without going through the NFA process. However is cannot be used to any practical degree, on a handgun...make the barrel longer...

I know that .22 shorts fired in a long barrel like a Marlin 39A are fairly quiet, as are the subsonics.

Absolutely. If I fire CCI CB shorts through my 24-inch barrel Marlin 39A, the only sound you hear is the drop of the hammer. The CCI Quiet-22 .22LR rounds are very quiet as well.

It's extremely fun to shoot on steel, and the rounds are surprisingly accurate.

 

[dogtown tom]

FrankenMauser

Quote:
Which has what to do with the OP?
"The geezer" claimed taping a cardboard tube from a roll of paper towels to the barrel of a 22LR gun and getting the same affect as an expensive suppressor"...….NO STUFFING. A simple cardboard tube taped to a firearm barrel will not likely do a darn thing.

So you're arguing that some stuffed animal stuffing is really an important point, even though it's contained within a cardboard tube?

No sir, I'm not arguing that....YOU brought a "stuffed animal stuffing" into the thread, no one else did.

AGAIN...….The geezer" "claimed taping a cardboard tube from a roll of paper towels to the barrel of a 22LR gun and getting the same affect as an expensive suppressor".

If you agree with that you know as little about silencers as the geezer.

Are you just grasping for straws at this point, for the sake of argument? Or do you really believe that the stuffing somehow changes the structure of a cardboard tube, and makes it suddenly capable of holding up to the muzzle pressure of a firearm ... even though you don't believe that an empty tube will?

Not only have you lost the plot you don't know what book you are reading.

 

[Mal H]

And so we close the book on this one.