Carbon Fiber AR's?

I wouldn't buy a Bushmaster, let alone one that was made to be more affordable. Someone else will elaborate better than I ever could, but NO the parts internally in ANY bushmaster, let alone the Carbon-15 are not just the same as "anyother" AR out there.

I find it rather funny that StrongSideArms posts in other threads boasting about Colt having great 1911 internals compared to SA or Kimber or anyone else... but yet here he is trying to defend a Bushmaster..... which according to the guys who strictly follow "the chart" or whatever... is an inferior built rifle, with or with out a cheap feeling upper and lower on it.

Not really saying anything terrible about them, if you want one go for it, I just think money is better spent elsewhere. I have a friend who has a Carbon-15, I've shot it... it wasn't terrible, but it certainly wasn't great. I never saw any gouging of the receivers due to feeding, but I have seen people cracking the receivers trying to remove or install the barrel.
 
Sorry Jim but build quality is important to some.... not just the ability to strap a bunch of cheaply made accessories on it so it looks cool.

I find it funny you took a LIGHTWEIGHT CARBINE, and strapped a cheap scope on it AND a cheap red-dot on it, put a qual rail on to hold a bipod... again on a CARBINE, and added a grip and flashlight..

You took a lightweight carbine and weighed it down with junk, and put a bipod on it... which is sort of counter intuitive one would think of a carbine.

All that might look cool when your playing Black-Ops or whatever, but I find all I have on mine is a Trijicon sight for most practical applications.

I use mine for HD and competition, I fail to see any practical use for a flashlight, a bipod, and two different optics on a CARBINE.

But you know so much more than all of us people who "have no idea what they are talking about"

I paid $800 for my AR WITH a Magpul CRT stock. Troy Industries quad rail, and Falcon ERGO grip already installed, unfired.

I just sold a used Bushmaster to a customer with a quad rail on it for $500, so I fail to see where all of us are missing out by not buying a Bushmaster marketed on sale at big box stores.

I guess if you just want something to load up with accessories from Cheaperthandirt.com it should be good, but I guess I fall into your crowd that doesn't know anything.:confused:
 
HK

Yep, I bought it as a cheap fun gun to see what I could do with it (I've spent more on a single pistol than on this one), planing on my first complete build from scratch. You have to understand I consider the 223 as a weak sister and will be building a 308 (AR-10) for my first build. It is fun to shoot at targets, and little furry creatures but forgive me for serious hunting or self defence no way (takes too many hits to nock down anything over 70 lbs unless it's a head shot with one bullet) For hunting right now I use a Marlin 336C in 35 Remington or a Savage Mod 110 in 270, the Rem 7600 30-06 is retired since it is worth too much money.

I also have a $1,200 AR, and what different did I get for the additional $600.00, in short NOTHING, except (0.230 MOA) and being able to go on forums like this and brag.

But if you are a first time AR buyer, purchase the cheapest one you can, since it maybe your first, but won't be your last. If you don't like plastic then don't buy Glocks, S&W, Ruger, FNH, CZ, Taurus or any others that have a carbon based frame. Personally if you don't like Bushmaster I think the M&P-15 is a good starter AR. If money is no object and you are not married and have no kids then go ahead and spend $1,500. (Not everyone can get a steal like you did for $800.)

I have a bunch of serious rifles I often and less so often use and then there are the "Winter Project" guns that you might call POS, but are fun to work on and shoot and I don't care if they get messed up.

So the choice is yours.
Jim

Winter Project Guns.
Top to Bottom AR-15 5.56, Mini-30 7.62X39, SKS 7.62X39

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PS: the flash lite is also a laser. And for home defense I use a 45 ACP 1911. And what you don't know has to do with saving money.
 
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Your statements on the .223 alone make me laugh. You consider it a weak cartridge and yet you use a .45 ACP for home defense. I hate to tell you this little tid bit, but diameter size is not the only aspect one should consider when thinking of a defensive firearm. You trust your life to a .45ACP for home defense... and laugh at the .223... yet the .223 will deliver a whole hell of a lot more energy.

I would hope you spent more money on a single handgun than $600... considering most handguns worth buying are over $600 brand new.

I am not a first time buyer... and I also sell firearms for a living, but what would I know. I am not out there buying a rifle because Cabelas, or Gander Mt. paid 300$ for the thing, and put them on "Sale" for $600. And I also don't load them up with garbage Chinese made accessories.

I love the fact you have a flashlight/laser combo on a gun you don't consider a defensive weapon.:confused:

A Remington 7600 being worth too much??? They sell used for $500?

I also have a .45 1911 for HD... but I only would grab it to have on me while retrieving the AR... Or Benelli M4

You and Strongside are missing the point. The fact is I don't care the receivers are Carbon Fiber, plastic, whatever, but sitting there saying internally they are the same thing as a Colt, BCM LMT, Noveske AR internally is my issue. Comparing a Bushmaster to any HK assault rifle, or the p90, or KRISS is like comparing a pinto to a ferarri.

Just like I know and understand that SA and Kimber... all be it good guns from my experience.... do not have the same internals at a Colt, Ed Brown, Les Baer, or Nighthawk.

Yes your Carbon 15 and other "beater" rifles might be fine for you on a lazy afternoon at the range... but considering I beat the ever loving hell out of my AR... in competition, it gets smacked around, it's been dropped (not by me) and it fires on average about 500-800 rounds a week, if not more. I'm lucky enough to get ammo directly for cheap prices, and also reload... so my AR see's very high volumes of fire. After about 1000 rounds I break it down, bring it in the gun smith room at the shop I work for... and throw my BCG and everything in the parts washer for a few hours.

I have replaced parts here and there but nothing has ever failed me. Plus I collect spare parts that are extra's from when people bring in to trade in AR's. I have literally built other AR's from random parts, and sold them, and usually keep enough on hand to rebuild mine.

I don't agree with money buys everything, or happiness.... but saying the rest of us who may have a NEED to buy quality that we can depend on to last, and take a beating, that we don't know anything... I think you may want to re-think your logic.

I did not get a steal on my AR... just simply paid what it was worth with out the inflation of price from the Obama scare.

You wanna talk about a steal... I got a Remington 700P LTR in 6.8SPC for $400 with Leupold rings and bases already on it, and 3 fresh boxes of Remington Premiere Match BTHP's.

The LRT's are worth more in general, and they are few and far between in 6.8SPC.

My point is... getting a affordable "cheap" gun, covering it in .. Chinese knock off's doesn't necessarily make it the same as something with better parts in it, with a higher price tag. Carbon Fiber body or not, I would not trust the bushmaster internals to hold up to the abuse I put my AR through.

That and I live in PA.... can't hunt with a semi auto, My Sako .308 forester, or Remington 600's in .308 and .243 do nicely for that however. The 6.8SPC will be going out shortly for coyotes.
 
And don't think I haven't had my fair share of cheap guns... I have a Bryco Jennings M 38 .32 Auto sitting in my tackle box for my kayak as we speak. I paid 5$ to transfer it into my name thats it. The book value on it in 95% condition is $50.:cool:
 
find it rather funny that StrongSideArms posts in other threads boasting about Colt having great 1911 internals compared to SA or Kimber or anyone else... but yet here he is trying to defend a Bushmaster..... which according to the guys who strictly follow "the chart" or whatever... is an inferior built rifle, with or with out a cheap feeling upper and lower on it
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Its simple, the Carbon 15 is not a inferior weapon. It made using the samething thats used in making the space shuttle. I admire professional ordnance for their forwrd thinking process. It has nothing to do with a company like Kimber making a inferior 1911, and trying to pass it off as Colt quality. I have more respect for Taurus in the 1911 area, because they build the samething as Kimber, but keep the price point honest.

Carbon 15s are priced point good for what you are getting. Second, i have owned several and never had any issue with them. They use a different material, and their crapy???
Your name is HKFan, HK has always been leader in using Aramids, Carbon Fiber, and Polymers in there weapons. The XM8 prototype is a complete composite weapon, minus the barrel. Your a very intresting guy, and it shows you no very little about core construction materials.

By the way, why are you following me around on threads??? I am not intrested, I play on the other team.;)
 
I found the double mall ninja'd AR pretty amusing myself
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10mmAuto, yes isn't it. I'm still looking for a place to put the bottle opener on it. (LOL)

You trust your life to a .45ACP for home defense... and laugh at the .223... yet the .223 will deliver a whole hell of a lot more energy.
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Yes, I do trust the 45 ACP, the 223 at 15 feet will just go through whatever you hit and not expand or expend it's energy at that range and just leave a little 55 grain 22 caliber hole in soft tissue (ahh, it toumbles when it hits, but not at that range traveling 3,100 FPS, try a 230 grain 45 at 980 fps and it will expand and expend it's energy). No, 50 (150 feet) or 25 (75 feet) yard ranges in your home is there? (Are the residents of you area aware that you plan on shooting through your walls? (LOL) I do agree with your reaching for the Benelli M4, but that gets messy at close range and you have to wash all that blood off the walls.

Have fun and chill out.
Jim
 
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Yes, I do trust the 45 ACP, the 223 at 15 feet will just go through whatever you hit and not expand or expend it's energy at that range and just leave a little 55 grain 22 caliber hole in soft tissue (ahh, it toumbles when it hits, but not at that range traveling 3,100 FPS, try a 230 grain 45 at 980 fps and it will expand and expend it's energy). No, 50 (150 feet) or 25 (75 feet) yard ranges in your home is there? (Are the residents of you area aware that you plan on shooting through your walls? (LOL) I do agree with your reaching for the Benelli M4, but that gets messy at close range and you have to wash all that blood off the walls.
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1)At that range even a 55gr FMJ would probably violently fragment.
2)Civilians aren't limited to FMJ. Hornady TAP will never go "through and through" neatly.
3)223/556 is well known not to penetrate barriers as well as .45ACP and 9mm. Short version, its got too much energy for its structural integrity to do that well.
 
To me, arguing about which .223 semi-auto is better/worse is like watching the two wimpiest elementary school kids try to fight it out on the playground.:D

The AR rifles were developed around a cheap, disposable system - good enough for government. The modern rifle version of the grease gun or sten gun.....they work for their intended purpose. If it can be made out of carbon-fiber plastic, all the much better.

I've got a Colt AR15 and a Carbon 15 pistol - original one made by Professional Ordnance. I never shoot the Colt, but like playing around with the AR pistol. Like I've said, the thing works fine and it doesn't break. Someone else who has one said essentially the same thing. I think some of the AR fans are getting a little riled-up over the fact that AR's can be made out of carbon-fiber plastic just as easily as aluminum. I'm sure that the internal parts are not quite as good as some of the more expensive AR builds - but, why should they be? I'm sure someone could make a carbon fiber upper-lower combo that is mil-spec that will perform just as well as aluminum. There is absolutely nothing magical about the aluminum they use in any of the AR receivers.:rolleyes:
 
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I owned a Bushmaster in the past, when I had more respect for them. The reason I won't own any new ones, is because they are about the pickiest of all AR's when it comes to ammo. Not just steel ammo. Whenever I've read reviews on ammo people have bought, and those that have had problems, the post or conversation usually starts off with: "When I shot it in my Bushmaster........".

As for a carbon gun, like the carbon-15. I don't have a major dislike for carbon. It's better than the Poly used in many handguns. My issue is the price. If I can buy a "Real" AR, made of metal, for the same price or better, I would rather have the higher quality. Well; that is exactly what I did. When I bought my most recent AR, Sportsman's Warehouse had my M&P15 For $649. They also had a Bush Carbon-15 for $600. It was a no-brainer. The M&P15 is a better gun.

If it was a carbon-15 at $600 vs Any other AR at $900+, then the carbon-15 would be something I'd definitely consider. But when I can get a quality metal AR for the same price, the Quality AR wins. I say quality, because I'd probably take the Carbon-15 over a similarly priced Olympic Arms or Double Star.
 
Strongside, You will not find in any of my posts where I said I had an issue with the Carbon body.... an upper and lower... is an upper and lower. The parts moving around inside those poly receivers is where I think the issue is.

I am not rich by any means, I would rather just spend a little more on firearms I think are worth it. Yes HK has been huge into polymers and what have you (although my name pays respect to the p7, just a big fan of what I think is a cool gun.) but like I said, comparing a Bushy Carbon 15 to a HK assault rifle..... is like comparing a Pinto or Gremlin to a Ferrari. Nor can it or should be compared to the FN p90.

And as for following you around Strongside... its not that hard when your clearly into 1911's as well as I am, and you are one of the few who actually took the time to learn what the 5.7x28mm round can really do. Maybe you should explain to Jim what a smaller fast moving bullet can do considering he bought into a lot of the common mis-conceptions of a .223.

The Carbon's aren't a BAD gun, like I said I have a friend who has one... and I ordered the damn thing in for him and sold it to him. I do shoot it on occasion and I even started there were NO issues with the receivers. But internally its like saying.... a Kimber looks like a 1911..... its just as good as an Ed Brown right?

If you wanted a lightweight carbine, and opted for the Carbon receivers for weight reduction such as Sonrider did.... then it clearly makes sense to me. But what you did... seems just like you found the cheapest AR you could, and put cheap gizmo's on it, and you have the audacity to sit there and say the rest of us don't know what were talking about. That is my issue, not the carbon receivers, hell even one of my 1911's wears VZ carbon fiber grips.:rolleyes:
 
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Skans, I agree with you, I don't think the Carbon receivers are the issue for that gun. They do work, but for how long I think would be less than a more in spec or better built AR. Receivers are receivers, no matter what they are made out of. The only issue I see with them could be damaging it when trying to remove or install the barrel.... because its pretty easy to even damage the aluminum receivers doing this.

It's like beer, Budweiser or Coors will get you drunk...but certainly don't taste as good as say....Samuel Smith's Oatmeal Stout, would be my personal favorite. All depends on ones tastes. I am not big into Johny Walker... so I don't buy the blue label... because frankly I cannot tell the difference, but I don't go around bad mouthing others who do buy it and may be able to appreciate it.:rolleyes:
 
Well I've obviously caused a lot of contraversy... sorry

I have usually been one to try new things. (bought both the XDM and a Remington R1 within months of the first ones being made, both have met their purposes admirably). AND I have in fact built my own LMT AR-15 before. It is a defender with magpul CTR stock.

However, I'll probably just go with the assemble your own AR again, cheaper and fun. OR I just may purchase one from a dealer here in Colorado. I like this for a bare bones AR. http://rarguns.com/M413.html

This guy is pretty good. Really liked his products when I bought them before.
 

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You guys who are posting pics of your "Carbon Fiber" AR's are all misunderstanding. Those guns aren't carbon fiber. They are either glass filled Nylon or carbon reinforced Nylon. I am willing to bet it is actually GF Nylon and not carbon at all. You guys bought marketing, not carbon fiber AR's. The guns pictured would probably be fine. If they work, and I don't doubt they do, fantastic. Something that is what you are all initially describing would not.

Do you know what Carbon fiber is?
 
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I know that the receivers aren't made of carbon. I do think they have some carbon in them, but they are probably mostly glass fiber reinforced nylon.

If you compare the carbon-15 receiver to a glock, you will notice that they are far more rigid - this leads me to believe that it may actually have some carbon in them....or maybe not - I have no way of knowing for sure and I haven't researched it.

I bet most of you don't remember the real reason the Carbon-15 was invented. Yes, it has to do with light weight, but not to make it easier for you to carry through the woods. The folks who came out with the Carbon-15 figured out a way around the idiotic weight requirement in the Assault Weapon Ban for pistols. Clinton & Associates wanted to ban AR pistols, along with guns like the Encom MP45, Sites Spectre, and other "assault pistols", but it was really aimed at AR pistols. So, someone came up with a light weight carbon/plastic receiver that evaded the AR pistol ban. It was the only new production AR pistol that you could buy after '96 and before '08.
 
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