Carbon Credits, Whats in store, England Now USA soon

I know Johnny Tremain is a kids movie, and may be less than the most thorough version of history, but the main political points are true. It gives the basic gist of the situation. They were being taxed over everything. They wanted representation. It wasn't going to happen.

We're being taxed to high heavens and we're not being represented. A majority of Americans are against amnesty for illegals, but the Senators go their own way. When election season starts, they pander and buy the votes of their constituents with massive earmarks. (Iowa is the first caucus and guess what they grow in Iowa? Coincidence? I don't think so.)
 
GPossenti, it is clear that our elected politicians do not represent the people any longer. I am a conservative, and it has become clear to me that elected politicians represent their own self interest, not mine and yours.
 
FireMax
Or, stop "talking" about Solar and actually "do" something with the technology. The fact is, yet again, it is the government that is in the way.

When solar becomes cost-effective, it will happen without "the government". We don't need the nanny state helping out in the marketplace any more than they already are.
 
When solar becomes cost-effective, it will happen without "the government". We don't need the nanny state helping out in the marketplace any more than they already are.

I agree. If we added a couple dollars tax to each gallon of gas, we would not only make alternatives competitive, but could use the money to research cheaper ways to produce alternatives.

I don't think there is much hope for solving our problem until gasoline is in the $7 to $10 per gallon range.
 
When solar becomes cost-effective, it will happen without "the government". We don't need the nanny state helping out in the marketplace any more than they already are.

And then this:

I agree. If we added a couple dollars tax to each gallon of gas, we would not only make alternatives competitive, but could use the money to research cheaper ways to produce alternatives.

Huh?
 
I read also that it costs SaudiArabia like $5.00 to get a barrel of oil out of the ground and it costs $3 per barrel in Alaska. To say that we are paying $130.00 per barrel because of a supply and demand issue is like saying I am a gorgeous super model.
 
The people of America seem to understand where the problem lies. Why is it, you think, that the government will not do anything? It is not the American people who are benefiting from the high price of oil. Who then is benefiting?

Answer that question and you will know the source of our common problem. I'll give you a hint... it's not just Exxon/Mobil and BP.

Well, my guess is that it is the speculators who drive up the price of oil. But who are the speculators and who supports them? I mean, if some president of a country somewhere in the world says something weird, the speculators drive the price of oil up $5 even though absolutely nothing has changed to actually make the price go up. It's just ridiculous. It seems like a panzi (sp?) scheme. It's all a bunch of B.S. if you ask me.
 
I have to conclude these idiots have never left the slums. Thier ideas are just plain dumb any where else. For starters they always start out by saying something to the effect of rationing energy. Did it ever occur to them that not everyone has the same energy needs.

2 years ago everybody blamed the GOP and "Bush and his cronies" for high fuel prices. The DFL has held a majority in congress now for 2 years and fuel is still going up. Of course the DFL faithful has forgot about that. How convenient....The only thing gas tax would do is hurt the small business owners. That in turn would hurt the economy worse then it alreay is. Some people are awfull quit to forget that those trucks bringing your food to the store burn the same diesel fuel as everyone else.

But I don't care, raise the gas tax. Then go out and whine about how the cost of food keeps going up. Peple don't realise that anytime the cost of production and transportation goes up so does does the retai cost. Come on people. do you realy think companies are just going to say "oh well" when the costs of doing business increase? No they are going to raise prices. Which effect everybody.

So shove that in your pipe and smoke it.

eta:

I realize taxation is never a politically popular idea. It is a better idea than rationing though. However, I think a hefty tax on gas would ultimately reduce demand, and help spur development of alternatives. It would decrease unnecessary consumption. $7 a gallon may or may not be enough to accomplish this. I think oil is still extremely undervalued and way too cheap. If it too expensive, we would have already seen a big drop in consumption and demand.

It has already been shown that a higher cost of fuel does little to affect the use of it. In the last few years the price of fuel has more then doubled. Yet I still see just as many full size trucks running empty down the roads. There will be (and for the most part already is) two groups Those who have the money and don't care what fuel costs. And those who will be forced to put other things on hold. I.E. No new atv, boat, rv, etc. The makers of these Start laying off people. Who then have even less money to spend on luxury items which means the manufactures lay off more people.

And more food for thought for when your eating corn flakes tomorrow morning. A bag of seed corn is now right at $250 for and it won't even cover 3 acres. Fertilizer is at or over $700. All becuase of fuel cost. And you want you raise it more.

I'll tell you what. I see alot of whining about fuel prices. But the only one who have a right to whine are those who use the fuel for more then just joy riding. The truckers, Contractors, farmers, etc.
 
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2 years ago everybody blamed the GOP and "Bush and his cronies" for high fuel prices. The DFL has held a majority in congress now for 2 years and fuel is still going up.

The differences between the republican and the democrat leadership are superficial at best. They both are incompetent as leaders of this nation.
 
O my god...speculators! Call in the government!

Wait, this is capitalism, speculation is OK...

Unless you are a socialist...

Or what purports to be a libertarian....

WildcantgetanyconsistencyoutoftheradicalscanyouAlaska ™
 
In the last few years the price of fuel has more then doubled. Yet I still see just as many full size trucks running empty down the roads.

Thats because a mere doubling of the scandalously low fuel prices of a few years ago is not enough. We will probably need to see gas in the $7 to $10 a gallon range to see any serious decrease in consumption.


And more food for thought for when your eating corn flakes tomorrow morning. A bag of seed corn is now right at $250 for and it won't even cover 3 acres. Fertilizer is at or over $700. All becuase of fuel cost.


But there has been no decrease in corn flake consumption, therefore the price is still not too high.
 
This whole thing reminds me of an old Beatles tune:

(if you drive a car, car;) - I’ll tax the street;

(if you try to sit, sit;) - I’ll tax your seat;

(if you get too cold, cold;) - I’ll tax the heat;

(if you take a walk, walk;) - I'll tax your feet.
 
Guys, stop the bickering. Back on topic-- it is truly amazing that any politician is willing to look like a fool by supporting global warming theory. John Mccain gave a speech recently and stated his belief in global warming. The prob. is, the earth has not warmed a bit since 1998. Does he think we are all stupid?
 
Thats because a mere doubling of the scandalously low fuel prices of a few years ago is not enough. We will probably need to see gas in the $7 to $10 a gallon range to see any serious decrease in consumption.

So punish the Farmers, Truckers just because a few rich people won't give up their SUVs? Yeah that makes sence. Why is it that the jobs most important in terms of surviving (IE, food and transporting said food) are the least understood and the most disrespected?

So you think fuel is not high enough. When it costs me $32/hour in fuel but that's not high enough for you? And there others around here that are spending $90/hour or more for fuel but I quess that's not high enough for you. When it costs $200/hour will that be high enough? or how about $300/hour? Then you can sit and starve simply becuase fuel was "too cheap." </ end satire> If the shoe fits wear and and if it don't fit don't wear it, But some people need to get their head out of their a** and realise that only a small amount of the fuel used in the nation is actualy used for personal cars. The great majoirty goes for heating, transportation and agriculture/industrial applicatons.

But back on topic.

When I was in school we watched this "documentary" about how by the year 2005 we all be in a drought and temps in the three digits, The entire mid-west would look the Sahara(SP?) desert. But here we are in 2008. we have not had decent corn crop in 4 years. 3 years ago the entire northern half of Minn. had hard frost the second week of August. The same month where the average temp should be in the 80s. Now we sit here in 2008 and the hay crop is at this point a month behind schedule on account of of it being to cold. Last winter was the coldest in 11 years. If anything these past 3-4 years have been on average colder, not warmer.

But what do I know about over complicated computer models and science. I'm just an old farmer with a pen, paper and a good working thermometer.
 
Come on, as fuel costs go up, the cost just gets passed on down to the consumer. But I understand your concern. Perhaps a system needs to be in place that taxes use of gasoline for automobiles after a certain number of miles per month, and exempts business use.
 
Thats because a mere doubling of the scandalously low fuel prices of a few years ago is not enough. We will probably need to see gas in the $7 to $10 a gallon range to see any serious decrease in consumption.

Who said we need to decrease fuel consumption? Did I miss the announcement of a world dictator?
 
Come on, as fuel costs go up, the cost just gets passed on down to the consumer. But I understand your concern.

Except one problem with your theory. Farmers can not determind at what price their grain or livestock is sold for. There is no "passing on the cost" in farming. The price of grain is set by the elevators. It's either take the price they give you or plow it under and take a loss. Sometimes it's a loss either way. The price of livestock is determinded by what the feed lots and packing houses are willing to pay. That is determinded by the cost of input. I.E. Grain. The higher the price of grain the lower the price of livestock.
Then of course there's Milk which is govt. price fixed.

Anway you look at it way your screwwed.

Perhaps a system needs to be in place that taxes use of gasoline for automobiles after a certain number of miles per month, and exempts business use.

I thought that's why they came up with the concept of on road fuel(taxed) and off-road[dyed] fuel (no tax)......

ETA:

One more thing,

Right now the cost of fuel has hit record highs. This has resulted in the search for alternitives. Among them ethonal. The use of corn for ethonal has resulted in a price jump and caused the livestock market to plumet. Cattle are down by $600/HD from last year. Bottle calves are worth less then half of what then were worth a year ago. Horses have took a huge fall and they can be had for nothing or next to it in. They'll go for kill for $35/CWT.

Anyone who want's to see the real effect of high fuel prices should leave the cities and come up here.
 
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