Car broken into and they came back the next night.

Retain a lawyer. Fallow his advise.

The police have been less than enthusiastic in this and if any thing "goes down" they may try to lay it on you to cover there a---s.
Keep good records and give your lawyer all copies, keep up dated. Retain only the copies he recommends. Have all video/audio down loaded to his office, this way attorney client privilege applies. Other wise the police WILL seize and you can have a hard time recovering a complete copy. This way you have control and can disperse as you need.
It keeps every one honest.
 
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Agree with tailGator,I also hope that was tongue and cheek because thats the kinda talk as lawbidding gun owners we do not need.That's got to be the worst advice of a thread yet.Congrats for just giving the Anti's more ammunition to feed on.:rolleyes:
 
My sister is all of 5'6" and 90 pounds and the shotgun would knock her flat on the ground.
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Its a 20 gauge shotgun, not a howitzer. If she is taught to fire it properly it won't knock her flat on the ground.
 
Donn N, I hadnt considered that, I have a pacemaker and will not be using the shotgun as I am not allowed to use a gun with so much kick.
 
If they keep coming around, even with the camera, they've got a bad plan for you. I can't admit here that I'd be able to control myself and watch them take photos and walk around on closed circuit tv.

One thought might be a PA system. Some kind of outdoor speaker you can talk through from the inside. "Hey mother f'ers, I see you in my drive way, I'm calling the cops... Again!"



I also agree that a second camera may be necessary, somewhere pointed that it can see the first camera. My suspicion too is that they're coming back and going to trash your surveillance as step #1.
 
20 gauge and smallish female

Pacerdude, FWIW I grew up in semirural Maine. In one friend's family (they had a farm), his little brother received a 16ga for his 5th birthday. He had to learn to shoot it with it lying across a fence rail.

I'm pretty sure your sister can learn to handle a 20ga, especially if you find some lower recoil loads.
 
One thing to keep in mind is to not let it get personal. These guys obviously already have and they have a bone to pick with your family. Just keep your wits about you and stay cool no matter what happens and don't let the "they're after my family I'm fighting mad" syndrome take over. Do exactly what needs to be done and nothing more (i.e. no pumping rounds into a BG that's already down).

Like I said before, work as much with the police as possible; Show them the video and try to get a squad car to tail them out and give 'em a scare next time they drive by your place.

Again, I might be letting my paranoid side show here but since they've already shown so much persistence I wouldn't put it past them to be trying to figure out where you or your mother are during the day. Just stay alert and if you have a permit then CCW.
 
I had a similar experiance as well as one of my brothers after I moved on out the nest.

Well in both instances the BGs stopped harrassing our momma but then broken jaws, missing teeth, and cracked skulls from being pistol wipped and struck with brass knuckles will do that.
 
deleted illegal advice
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Effective maybe, efficient or legal? Doubt it. Doing what you posted earlier might work in a bar fight but in a use of force situation it will get you in a lot more hot water. The idea is to not be the party that escalates the situation easyG, if you respond with lethal force in GA you need to have
a reasonable fear of imminent threat of death or serious bodily injury to himself or herself or to another
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and you are believed to have such if
the person against whom the defensive force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcibly entering or had unlawfully and forcibly entered upon an occupied habitation and the person who uses defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry was occurring or had occurred.
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It will be very hard to justify having you and a few of your friends blow the hell out of some folks sitting in your driveway or standing around in your yard unless they're visibly armed and even then the fact that you had friends help you shows a little too much premeditation IMO.

That's got to be the worst advice of a thread yet.
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+1, now let's get back on topic.
 
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Force against force

Getting a lawyers advice is important and having the right kind of lawyer give it to you is the most important. The vast majority of lawyers are lefty libtards that will discourage any type of self defense. Check the laws yourself particularly the newer ones on protecting property. I have a lot of experience with confrontations and this sounds like a good time for one. These guys stop a car in front of your house, I would either go to a window facing the street or open the front door, shotgun across my chest. The window is nice because you have a wall(hopefully brick) as cover. They've been trespassing and doing a lot of harassing. It's your house. If they've already brazenly walked around your house and car with a camera after a smash and grab, they probably are going to up the ante eventually. You have to have the mindset that something bad can happen to your family. Call 911 and keep an open line. I might use a head set for hands free operation. You can always put the phone on a table or something.They approach you, you give loud repetetive verbal commands. Get back in the car, get out of here! You are trespassing, the cops are enroute!!" Remember, in court, a judge will WANT to see a clear cut case of self defense. If you have to shoot the shotgun tuck it under your arm pit on the opposite side of the pacemaker, or let fly from the hip. If you have neighbors across the street or close on either side you have to be accurate. No maybes. I'd maybe let them get within 15 ft unless they brandish weapons. Then the distance gets longer. Problem here is you don't have any training so the bad guys have a huge advantage.
I was enjoying a movie with my family in the living room about 5 years back. Out of the blue I see about 7-8 teen agers walking across my lawn, across my neighbors lawn into her back yard. It's 11:30 p.m. and she's a 40 year old single mom. I go out to my drive way and see they're using her back yard for a party place AND snooping around the garage. I yelled at them to get the hell out of there, this is a quiet neighborhood. They slowly did but then I thought what if one of this big goofs decides I should mind my own business. So yeah, I got my pistol from the house. And stood in my drive way as cars were driving off. No problems since.
 
Getting your own gang together to deal with a threat.

It works most of the time.
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Right. Gangs and vigilantism violence are so effective.

It's why urban areas are so tranquil and peaceful. All the gangs.

There's something queer about this thread I can't put my finger on. Also that other thread, the Attacked in a parking lot thread. Perhaps it's just that the posters are young and this shtlick is still an exciting event/adventure to them.
 
A lot of good advice

There has been a lot of good defensive advice offered, tactical and legal. The only thing I have to add to that would be to (if you have the money) hire a security consultant (in addition to the lawyer) to advise what measures would be most effective in making your house safe. None of us here on the forum have seen your house, so cannot advise in defensible space, perimieter protection, best placement of detection devices, etc. (Dog, multiple layers of cameras, off-site storage, safe room with cell phone and independent power etc.)

What really prompts my post is to suggest taking a proactive approach. Find out who these guys are. Get an injunction against them if you can (was suggested already) and then go a little further. Without becoming a stalker or violating their rights/privacy find out what you can about them. That may give a clue as to how to get them prosecuted (maybe not for the crimes against you, but at least for SOMETHING).

Knowing some of their history, you may also get a clue as to who else might wind up targeting you. The fact they took pictures of your house's exterior indicates a great deal of planning and they may, having already been identified by the police, turn the job of your home's invasion to other criminals whose faces you don't have on camera.

I feel for your predicament. It is unfair that you should have to spend your time, worry and money to make you and yours safe, but that is the situation. As long as you are faced with this unfairness, you might as well get out ahead of the events.

Is there a victims' rights advocate in your jurisdiction? They may be able to help get extra police effor, since your burglary and continued harrassment/stalking is ongoing and apparantly escalating. It seems pretty clear you are being actively targeted and the usual advice of "Make yourself a less inviting target and the criminals with be discouraged and look elsewhere" is definitely NOT applicable. You are not a victim of opportunity, but an active target and the odds of an escalation are pretty near 100%.

So, point by point, my advice:

Contact (if there is one) the victims' services office with jurisdiction in your area. See what assistance/advice they have.

Consult a professional security specialist for how to harden your house. The same security specialist might have advice on what to do with the information of the next step.

Find out who these guys are and the people they run with and everything you (legally) can about them. This may start with an internet search of court records (usually public records, but with juveniles usually protected, but there are sometimes legal ways around that)

Get an injunction against them if you can. Or, find out what their beef is and if there is more to the story than you know, perhaps a truce could be negotiated. Or, at least, the knowledge might make you better armed against them in their criminal trials.

Consult a lawyer with two questions: 1) What are our rights with regard to self-defense? 2) Can I go after these guys with criminal charges or civil charges (in court) with or without the police? If you can find a lawyer in private practice who used to be a prosecutor, so much the better (my opinion). You want to find an attorney equally adept at 1) defending you if you should have to explain use of force and 2) figuring out how to gather evidence to prosecute or sue these criminals.

And a VERY BIG caution. These guys are not just burglarizing for fun and profit. You have been targeted and are now being actively hunted. Let that fact inform your decisions. I don't want to scare you, but if they are determined enough arson is not out of the question, nor is a hit on any of you in some other location.

Good luck. and prayers be with you. God helps those who help themselves, and remember, God is observing how you do that.

Lost Sheep

With regard to EarlG's advice. Forum rules forbid a specific response, but I gotta respond. I know the impulse is to gear up and go hunting, or as you suggest, set up with an overwhelming response team. Gratifying. But the fact is that private armies (or even just a fire team or two) is beyong the reach of most of us. Vigilantism 1) is not Legal 2) is too easy to make a mistake and get the wrong people killed 3) seldom the end of the matter (at least not satisfactorily).
 
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Moderator Note

I just went through and deleted some illegal advice - some of it visible to members, some not. Going to go ahead and leave the thread open, but any further illegal advice on this thread WILL result in a ban of the offending member(s). This includes chest-thumbing, bloodlust, and all related behaviors.

On TFL, we will discuss what can be done within the law and within an ethical framework, and we will do so in a calm and chest-thumping free environment. There are lots of other places around the 'net where you can advocate for irresponsible firearms use, but TFL is not one of them.

pax
 
Thank you Pax, and do you have any advice? They came back last night, three or four of them in the car and one person was brazen enough to come into the yard, and then run through to the back yard. We went out to the front porch and called the police. By the time the police came everyone was gone. But we have the video of the SUV and the person in our yard. I dont want any of this to come to violence, I just want them to leave my family alone. Thanks in advance for the great advice.
 
even worse than proposing illegal behavior, it isnt a long shot
that some of these guys might even be reading this board and
enjoying the buzz they are creating

you never know

if that is the case, you could be telegraphing every move
you are doing, which might actually work to your disadvantage

gives you pause for thought, although there has been much good
advice and support offered throughout......

good luck!
 
This may be stupidly simple, but if you put up legal "No Trespassing" signs, and then they do the stuff they have been doing, don't the authorities have a charge against them?
 
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