Canton OH Police CCW Holder Encounter

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I'm sure in your LE career you've seen a few of the type.

Thank you very much, shortwave, but I am just a Corrections Sgt, not a street cop. :) We do work the same crowd. :D And yes, I have seen many who I wondered how the heck they made it through even out Academy, including one individual who finally got fired after being found low crawling across an open yard, making machinegun noises, claiming he was having a WWII flashback, (he was in his 30s.). On the other hand, the inmates were terrified of him...:p
If Harless were to come to work for us, he would have to work max custody lockdown, then he would just get thrown on and darted. Put him on a yard, and you have "major disturbance" writ large. Probably with major pieces of him being found "detached".
No, with his major lack of "people skills", he has only two possible job openings, if he skips being an inmate, and that would be either a night watchman for a construction site, or receptionist for the IRS.
 
:D:D
...or receptionist for the IRS
:D:D

Now thats funny!

His new code name could be 'Peggy'...

"Hi! My name Peggy.
You pay taxes or I come shoot you 10 times. Then go home go to sleep".
 
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Thanks, armoredman and shortwave,

Those are the first laughs generated by this awful thread. Harless is one disturbed individual. I hope for the people of Canton, the city of Canton, and law enforcement everywhere that Harless gets gone in a hurry.
 
Well Mr. James, I'm afraid Canton will be the topic of many jokes around Ohio in the LE community for awhile.

One joke thats going around is that all Canton LEO's are going to be issued Brass Knuckles in a bill passed by Canton City Council Pres. Schulman. The BK's are only to be used on citizens caught legally cc'ing.:D

Another is that the TV show 'Cops' is going to feature a show on the similarities of police tactics in Canton and Russia.:rolleyes:

Those are just a couple of the many I've heard from different LEO's.

I also heard a FTO for a dept. I won't mention the dept., told a rookie to "forget everything he saw if he watched the Harless training films on how to conduct a stop".

The rookie didn't know what the FTO was talking about and started asking around the precinct. When it got back to the FTO's Luitenant, the FTO was told to knock the Harless comments off. :cool:

Oh yea, another is if you pull someone over and they've giving you trouble, instead of threatening them, just tell them you're going to 'Harless them'.
 
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shortwave said:
Oh yea, another is if you pull someone over and they've giving you trouble, instead of threatening them, just tell them you're going to 'Harless them'.
"Oh, please, Officer -- could I choose waterboarding instead?"
 
^^:D:D^^

On a more serious note:

Want to thank the Mods. for the patience you guys have shown in this thread. Including the last couple of posts.

Just a way of blowing off some steam in a situation that infuriates many.

Thanks again!
 
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"Gecko45 may be uber tactical and a bit over the top, but even he always came across as a "consumate professional," not a hit man with a badge. I never saw anything from Gecko45 suggesting he wanted to just kill customers in his mall for littering, for example."

My apologies to Gecko45 for the insulting and unwarranted comparison to Ofc. Harless.

And please, please don't get a job with the IRS!!!!!
 
It was my intent when I started this thread to
1. Find out what happened.
2. Press local officials to conduct a proper investigaion.
3. Remove a threat to the public from a place of authroity.
4. Insure that the citzen recieve a fair trial.
5. Insure equal protection under the 14th admendment by getting criminal charges brought against the Officer involved.

Could some locals update us on the status of the case?
 
...and Thank You for starting this thread Itc444.

Although I live in Ohio, I'm about 80-90miles from Canton. A friend of mine lives kinda on the Southwest side of Canton(not far from Canton City Council Pres. Schulman) but unfortunately he will not be back in Canton for awhile as he is somewhere down on the coast helping with the aftermath of 'Irene'.

In other-words, I haven't found out any updates other than the City of Canton is going ahead with the charges/hearing on the ccw holder on 10/16(I think).

Having said that and being a little familiar with how these things are sometimes handled, it would not surprise me to hear that an 'out-of-court' settlement has been struck by the city and the ccw holder anytime before the hearing. Would also speculate that if a deal is struck, the details of the settlement will more than likely have to be agreed upon by the ccw holder to be kept confidential.

I can almost gaurantee those efforts are ongoing.

Other than that, I have no further updates. Hopefully someone closer than I has something substantial. If not, I guess we all just have to wait.

Again, VERY IMPORTANT:

In the mean-time, continued calls to the media, Canton PD and officials should continue by everyone in the gun community as this affects us all.
 
Harless' disciplinary hearing was postponed because he is unable/incompetent to take part in his own defense. That was supposed to be on the 2nd.

The trial for Bartlett is supposed to be on the 7th. Of course Harless is not going to show up or he will be crucified on the witness stand. Especially if he is made out to be a liar as far as faking his illness etc etc.

It is going to be interesting what happens on the 7th now the star witness of Canton is medically unfit (or so he and the union says) to even testify in his own behalf.
 
Harless' disciplinary hearing was postponed because he is unable/incompetent to take part in his own defense. That was supposed to be on the 2nd.

The trial for Bartlett is supposed to be on the 7th. Of course Harless is not going to show up or he will be crucified on the witness stand. Especially if he is made out to be a liar as far as faking his illness etc etc.

It is going to be interesting what happens on the 7th now the star witness of Canton is medically unfit (or so he and the union says) to even testify in his own behalf.

Interesting. I cannot imagine how they plan on trying this defendant. They need to cut Harless loose as soon as it's practical, drop the charges, and get the drama behind them.

If this begins to look like a malicious prosecution, this man just won the lottery. If Bartlett insisted on a speedy trial they would have to proceed without Harless, and let the video do the talking. With or without Harless' testimony, that video is pretty damming.

With Harless on the stand, the city get's dragged through the muck with the whole nation watching.

I don't believe they are going to let that happen.
 
Can they try someone with no witnesses?

It's one thing if the witnesses are deceased or incapacitated, but if the witnesses for the state are LEOs and they just choose not to show up - I am pretty sure that they can't win the case.

Also - I think without state witnesses, they might have a good chance of getting the video thrown out. I know the dash cams have stood on their own merit as admissable evidence in cases where officers have been killed. But I think the video as evidence would be very vulnerable in the unexplained and basically unwarranted absence of the officers.

Once either officer is on the stand... it's heyday for laying the groundwork for the mega lawsuit that is in the pipeline.

The only thing I keep thinking is that the city hopes to get a conviction somehow someway in hopes of undercutting the lawsuit.

If they were thinking that continuing with the charges would pressure the defendant to settle the civil case - they should have figured out by now that is not going to work.
 
Jerking an employer around via union rules is one thing.

Getting a jury to beleive any of it is another.

I once tried to fire a forklift operator because basiclaly - he sucked at his job and wouldn't do what I told him. We had a policy that when the battery on a picker was getting low, they had to plug it in to charge it. Also, at the end of the night - pickers had to be plugged in and charging. When this guy's picker battery got low, he would just grab a new one - leave the old one parked in an aisle or whatever.

When I got ready to give him the third right up he informed me that he had suffered a hernia while loading a pallet.

1 week of taking to HR and our insurance carrier for disability and they convinced me that there was nothing I could do. I couldn't fire him while he was on disability.

Well whatever work rules and contract provisions Harless is taking advantage of right now is all well and good, and he's protected by the technicalities, but it's going to look horrible to a jury.

A jury is going to know him for what he is - a liar who lacks integrity.
 
in my opinion

the cab driver - just like any citizen - has a right to a trial by jury. If he has a good lawyer, he might not understand fully what he has been told: this case will never go that far so "hang tight even though you're not going for a ride".
 
C0untZer0) said:
Also - I think without state witnesses, they might have a good chance of getting the video thrown out. I know the dash cams have stood on their own merit as admissable evidence in cases where officers have been killed. But I think the video as evidence would be very vulnerable in the unexplained and basically unwarranted absence of the officers.
Why would the video not be admissible? Harless had no control over it -- dash cams are automatic devices. Dunno about Canton, OH, but around here the dash cam is activated automatically when the cop activates the flashing light bar.

There is no need to examine or cross-examine Harless about the video. It shows what it shows, and it is an official police record.
 
If this goes to trial,
I'm sure the City of Canton feels they can utilize Harless's partner along with the tape to successfully prosecute Bartlett.

After all, Harless's partner was dummy #2 for getting into the back seat of the car without clearing the vehicle first.:rolleyes:

But given the fact that Harless is out on sick leave, again, which is more than likely 'mental stress' related and will not attend the hearing and the fact that this hearing will not be about the deplorable tactics used in the stop by Harless and his partner, but rather whether Mr. Barlett tried to inform LEO's of his ccw at the onset of the stop, the prosecution will have to use what they have to try and prove their case. Which will largely be the testimony of Harless's partner.

For the life of me, I can't understand why departmental charges have not been put on Harless's partner as well. I'm sure there's training procedure's and very likely departmental policies about entering a vehicle to search before properly clearing it.

As far as Harless goes, at this stage of the game, IMO, he knows he's screwed. He's opened up the City of Canton to a very large,costly lawsuit. Which in turn has caused national embarrassment to all Canton officials from the mayor on down, including his fellow officers. He's put the union in a position that makes it very hard for them to defend him....sooo, he'll use any angle he can to come out of this the best he can.

If that includes using the city established policies, union by-laws, the sick leave policy(which IMO, there's no doubt he's doing right now) or fellow LEO's, he's gonna do it to try and come out of this as un-scathed as possible.

What the City of Canton has to do is not only be very careful as to how they are dealing with Bartlett's situation, which is going to be very costly for them, but make sure they dot all their i's and cross all the t's in getting rid of Harless.

Hard as it is to believe, if the city doesn't, they may end up getting sued by Harless as well. Especially if Harless is out on mental stress at this point which can be a very touchy issue.

After everything thats happened in this case so far, I'm not sure the leadership in Canton is smart enough to keep this whole thing from doing anything but getting worse.... at an incredible overall cost to the taxpayers.



...Oooops, after posting the above I clicked onto the site that drcook posted earlier about updates.
Reading the second item : 'other statements of that nights events', seems as though Officer Diel, Harless's partner only remembers details of SOME of the events that happened the evening of the arrest of Barlett when questioned by IA.
Basically, he couldn't remember any derogatory conversation Harless had with Barlett.

How convenient when a veteran cop like Diel can remember so many details of the nights events. He CAN remember Harless saying/asking certain things about the gun and being upset with Barlett but CAN'T remember Harless threatening Bartlett when the tape shows him no more than three feet away facing the two, CAN'T remember the berating Harless gave Bartlett from Barletts car to the cruiser which continued after everyone was in the cruiser.

All this, "I CAN'T remember" stated to IA by Diel and the fact that no departmental charges were pressed on Diel for covering up for Harless, doesn't give much faith in Canton PD IA dept.

If his memories that bad, maybe he shouldn't be on the street either. He may forget a call he's sent on while enroute to the call.:mad:

Also the answer by Diel in regards to the question asked him by IA of the dashcam/recorder being on/off was interesting as well.
 
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Basically, he couldn't remember any derogatory conversation Harless had with Barlett.
He's full of it.

Harless now claiming PTSD, therefore unable to assist in his own defense and doctors saying that the disciplinary hearing could set back his 'therapy'.

Funny thing is, I actually believe it (The PTSD part), because his emotional reaction was so out of proportion to the actual events. I get the sense that merely encountering a firearm in possession of the driver did, in fact, trigger a sort of neurosis in Harless that was not commensurate with the set of facts in front of him. (IANA doctor)

One thing this admission (or ruse, depending on one's point of view) makes certain, is that he will never work as police officer again. Someone so damaged and fragile that that can't even show up for a hearing is going to have a hard time making a case to re-enter the stressful environment of a law enforcement officer.

Also, Harless's (now admittedly) skewed frame of mind will further diminish his credibility as a defense witness for the driver's civil suit, as Harless was viewing, recalling, and interpreting the events through the filter of his PTSD.

The thing that continues to astound me, is that the city has bnot dropped the charges yet. If they put on their blinders and prosecute this guy, there is going to be a ****-storm in the OH CCW community.
 
+1 MP...

...but Harless didn't write the book on using the 'mental stress' theory to retire from a gov't job with a full pension.;)

He isn't the first and won't be the last.

Problem is he's left the City of Canton in a huge predicament as well as extremely hurting the integrity of the Canton PD .

Course, IMO, I would bet he could care less at this time.

This 'mental stress' claim comes as no surprise and honestly was expected.

With 14+ yrs service, he's vested and will retire on dissability, collecting his retirements plus tax free dissability compensation....and again if the City of Canton doesn't do things right maybe alittle additional cash from them as well.

Very easy for Harless to turn around and use his other earlier dashcam vids. which everyone knows was viewed by superiors and say "if what I was doing was not acceptable why wasn't something done then" or "why wasn't I informed/disciplined of wrong-doing then?"

Its possible Harless with a good attorney/doctors, could turn this whole thing around as being 'the victim'. Collecting big-time.
 
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