Can you "uparmor" a level III AR500 armor plate with a floor tile?

Can a floor tile "uparmor"

  • Yes.

    Votes: 6 50.0%

  • No, still penetrates.

    Votes: 6 50.0%
  • Total voters
    12
  • Poll closed .
I love this guys threads. Lol. IIIa + ammo + stuff is pretty heavy but lets toss some floor TILE in there as well. Hopefully it works cuz you definitely aren't gonna be moving fast.:D:rolleyes:

Gecko45 writes:

hello friends,

Last year I made the decision to trust my life on the street to Second Chance body armor. I got the level IIa because it stops the most rounds. plus I got the Trauma Plate for the front.

What scares me is that, although I can fit an extra trauma plate in the front, I cannot fit a second one in back. As of late I have taken to duct-taping a second trauma plate to the area of my back where the heart and vital organs are located. Then I put my vest on.

Here is the questions. The ducttape solution, although tactically sound, is hot and painful to remove. I would like to go to the single-plate solution in back. What I am worried about is repeated hits to that area with .308 ammunition. I have a high-risk security job and I fear that I would be the target for repeated long-distance shots to my back.

Are any of you aware of a thicker plate that could stop, say, .338 Lapua or something like that? Is there a better way to do the second plate?

BTW, I am, of course, usually carrying a pair of ceramic plates in my briefcase so that I can shield my head. My SO (we work as a team when necessary) has a similar accessory containing a breakdown NEF single-shot 300 WinMag with an 18" bbl. The plan is that I shield us with my body and “catch the rounds” while she assembles the NEF. I lay down covering fire with my 23 (Bar-Sto .357 Sig barrel) and she makes the long shots. I will then throw smoke grenades to obscure the area while continuing to lay covering fire. The problem, of course, is when I have to turn my back to run, and then the problem crops up.
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Lol, yeah that was pretty funny back in '06 or '07 when it was originally posted. Fun to see people still "discovering" the mall ninja chronicles. If you ever get a chance, you should read through the whole thread and read some of the haikus. Some of them were pretty good.

I've spent my time wearing real body armor for a living. You're not teaching me anything.

kilimanjaro nailed it. Not all tile is the same. Some is "ceramic" while some is porcelain. Some is thicker. There are PEI grades assigned that indicate the durability of the time. Generally, the higher the number, the thicker and harder the tile is. Porcelain PEI grade 4 or 5 is very hard. It's all brittle, but the hardness is what helps to break up the bullet. Materials like porcelain and concrete also have very high compressive strength but low tensile strength. When you combine the material properties of two disparate materials, you can do some really interesting things. Take a look at the test in the OP now that you've weighed in. Every time we do one of these, I learn something new and that's because you guys have some diverse and interesting ideas.
 
I spent some time up-armoring vehicles on a contract. I just installed the kits, not the engineer lol.

But the thing that makes them work is the layers of different material

I'd honestly be interested if Mr. Wiggin did tests on standard building materials just see how the ar interacts inside household stuff.

Many people have ARs to rely on for HD and those threads always end in controversy
 
Yeah, good point. Better to not wear anything at all. You should tell all those cops to stop wearing their level IIIA * armor because it won't stop rifle rounds.



*actually, a large number of cops wear level IIA, especially in warm climates, but you get the point.
 
"...this information could fall into the wrong hands..." Like who? Guys on an internet forum?
You can break a floor tile with a hammer. Floor tiles are made of baked clay.
"...the hardness is what helps to break up the bullet..." Nope. Plates just spread the energy of the impact. They do not break up the bullet. Ever see a rifle bullet that has hit a regular steel target?
 
Yeah, good point. Better to not wear anything at all. You should tell all those cops to stop wearing their level IIIA * armor because it won't stop rifle rounds.



*actually, a large number of cops wear level IIA, especially in warm climates, but you get the point.
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Cops could wear armor that stopped everything, problem is, it would be 3/4'' steel plate and/or weight 900 lbs or bulk them up like the Michelin Tire Man. You've made the point. One can add all kinds of things, including natural stone tile, bullet proof glass, more Kevlar, etc., but it comes down to practicality and usefulness. Kinda why SWAT teams have armored vehicles instead of wearing 900# body armor.
 
"...the hardness is what helps to break up the bullet..." Nope. Plates just spread the energy of the impact. They do not break up the bullet. Ever see a rifle bullet that has hit a regular steel target?
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Yes, in a manner of speaking. They typically shatter into a bazillion fragments. I've also examined the field expedient armor plate that I've tested and found only tiny fragments of the bullet. While your input is welcome, it would be more constructive if you watched the tests in question before giving an opinion.

This test is a proof of concept and clearly shows how the tiles break up a bullet. The fragments of bullet and tile are showed by the additional layers and, as you mentioned, the impact is sorted over a wider area until a sheet of HDPE plastic is capable of arresting the fragments.

https://youtu.be/FaXta-b5Zpw


buck460XVR, I think you're missing the point.
 
buck460XVR, I think you're missing the point.
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No I don't think so.

The question asked was "can you "uparmor" a level III AR500 armor plate with a floor tile?". As I said, you can add almost anything to "uparmor" those plates. It's the practicality of wearing a 14'' ceramic floor tile around your neck over the top of your body armor that I questioned. What did I miss?
 
You do know that tiles can be cut, right? You could just cut the tile to 10" x12" with angles at the top to match your plate. It also stands to reason, that if a person were to use this method, they would probably affix the tile to the plate to reduce fragmentation as mentioned earlier, and just slip the now 0.4" thicker plate into the same carrier, not hang it around their neck.


Now, for clarity, I thought your earlier comment was about the hillbilly from Doomsday Preppers. Level III plates already stop .30-06, except for M2AP.
 
You do know that tiles can be cut, right?
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Uh, yeah. Probably have laid more tile than most folks here. My comment about hanging the tile from one's neck with a rope was humor, but also meant to reiterate the point of excess weight/bulk. Body armor does no good if it's so heavy/bulky that you can't move effectively to do your job or to keep the BG from shooting you in the head.
 
Like anything else, body armor is a balance of compromises. Cost, weight, thickness, threat level, etc. all play a role. Adding a fragmentation mitigating coating also adds thickness and weight, but doesn't improve ballistic protection.

Of you're concerned about stopping M193, it would probably be better to purchase level III+ or level IV armor. Unless that's not an option.
 
Your link is broken. The end parenthesis needs to go inside the brackets for the link.

There has been some controversy over King Zero's administration's interpretation of ITAR of late. They have even tried to consider YouTube gun videos to be a violation of ITAR. This will likely have to be hashed out in court. Regardless of what is ultimately ruled legal, prior restraint on pure information (without incitement to violence and without dissemination of national security sensitive information) is morally wrong.
 
Building a homemade firearm? That's not generally someone going to do something illegal would do. They tend to have stolen guns or very cheap guns. Why bother going through the trouble to make it just so it won't have numbers? People make guns at home everyday. I was wanting to build some AKs but then the scare of getting banned happened and kits got crazy expensive.
You'll also read where I'm probably just the paranoid one. I don't see a problem with making homemade armor, but posting plans on the internet just seems like a bad idea. With a homemade gun, even has crude as a .50 muzzle loader cannon takes time and atleast some knowledge. Some tools too. If you could make vests capable of stopping weak rifle rounds would only require a vest you can buy off of the internet cheap, some duct tape, and an old piece of tile how many crazies might read that and think it'll work. The most complicated part of that is which duct tape to buy, versus making a gun. Again, I'll admit I'm a bit paranoid. At the same time it's not safe for the intended audience either. What if the tile used isn't strong, some idiot is gonna think he's John McClain and when he puts the vest on it shatters. Adding to that it's gonna give someone confidence that they don't need. Oh I can get shot with an AR15 with this thing.

My final post with this. I have a steel revolving target rated for .44 mag. When shot it spins. It's been shot at with many things. You aren't supposed to shoot at with FMJ but I have. It's been hit with a couple hundred FMJ 9x19. It's also been shot with .357 mag, 9x18, .44 mag, and .45 Colt but only the 9x19 and 9x18 were FMJ. None do more than put a chip in the paint. All of the pistol shots were within 25 yards, usually 15 or so. With .45 Colt out of a rifle it still doesn't bother it and that's with hunting rounds. So my idiotic self thought .30-30 at 75 yards wouldn't hurt it. Not only did the target not handle it, the bullet went through it so fast the target didn't even spin. These were Winchester Super-X, no FMJ and out of a Savage 24. I also have seen those thin walked helium tanks shot. Cheap steel cased fmj 7.62x39 from Walmart puts a hole in it the same size going in as it does going out. Doesn't matter if it's from 25 yards or 100 and that's in a regular AK. With a .45 Colt coming out of a 16 inch barrel with Super X ammo at 25-50 yards the entrance is about 1/2 to 3/4 inch and bullets would go clear through at it with a nice big exit. The entrance holes also dented in. I also know .50 muzzle loader at around 30 yards puts a ball clear through a washer. The entrance is big but the exit is small. With sabots with plastic tips the entrance is bullet diameter about and the exit is big. What all of this I'm trying to say is I would never recommend trusting your life with floor tile. If you want a vest capable of stopping rifle rounds get one. I personally don't have a need for one, but if I did I don't see how a homemade one is a good idea. Especially with inferior materials.
 
Homemade guns are actually really easy to make.

It's fairly widely known that tiles can stop bullets. The purpose of the OSAP project is to develop a repeatable standard. This uparmor video is just an offshoot of the OSAP project but I hope that it gives armor makers some inspiration to make better, cheaper armor.

You're right that if a person has the choice, they should purchase armor that fits their needs. A person may already own Level III AR500 armor, though, and they may be concerned because it doesn't stop what they thought it would. Adding a tile to it might give them some peace of mind while they save for a Level III+ or Level IV plate. Maybe someone can't even afford a set of Level III plates or maybe someone wants to protect everyone in their family but they can't afford that many plates and a set of homemade OSAP panels is a heck of a lot better than a hole in the chest. Maybe someone lives in an oppressive locale where the almighty state doesn't allow them to purchase body armor. Again, OSAP gives them the opportunity to protect themselves.
 
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