Can you defend yourself against a LEO?

I like to think that LEOs and I are on the same side, there have been small incidents when I or them have stretched that bond but life is pretty good on the right side of the law.

I would take my lumps with Local and State LEOs, but after Idaho and Waco my actions would take more thought. If in the wrong, I would likely submit but
if in the right against storm troopers, another question. Honest, legal freedon is worth dying for..............
 
However, he violated one of the first laws of firearms: identify the target. The officer was in uniform...
Click to expand...

LA Cops Charged For Roles In Home Invasion Gang

LOS ANGELES, CA--A federal grand jury this week indicted six defendants, including three sworn law enforcement officers, on civil rights, narcotics and weapons charges for allegedly participating in a gang consisting of law enforcement officers and civilians who raided residences as though they were conducting legitimate law enforcement operations, but in reality were staging home-invasion robberies to steal drugs, money and weapons.
Click to expand...

Talk about sick, man. Wow.
 
Quote:
What happens if the homeowner doesn't realize it's cops and not BG's knocking down his door? What happens if shots are fired?
Click to expand...

Usually the homeowner dies.
Click to expand...

Thats what happened in Lebanon, Tennessee back in 2000, November last year in Atlanta, Georgia to a 92 year old woman, Mississippi back in December 2005 was another wrong break inand a bunch of other occassions. You can understand the homeowner firing when a bunch of armed men break into their house unannounced and the one in MI was protecting a toddler and is on deathrow for the police coming smashing through his door in the middle of the night without telling anyone.

The death of the homeowner is quite common and its a really screwed up situration. They really need to abolish non knocking warrents as its just death waiting to happen.
 
I think the short answer is that your mileage may vary.

My uncle shot and injured a police officer THROUGH THE CLOSED DOOR of his and my aunt's pool hall one night. They had been having trouble with B&E's. The officer apparently was responding to a report of some scumbag trying to break in (not called in by my Uncle/Aunt) and was trying the door in rather forceful manner to see if it was secure. My uncle fired a shotgun through the door injuring the police officer (not seriously).

After about 1 year of back and forth, the county dropped charges and paid my uncle a relatively small sum to settle any potential civil claims.

It seemed strange to me at the time. When I first heard about it, I figured my Uncle was going to be doing some serious time in prison. YMMV.
 
I figured the best solution, depending on the circumstances, was to always be mild but firm in your tone of voice, and keep your hands in front of you so as not to give an officer any reason to get physical with you. If struck, immediately drop to the ground, roll into a ball with your hands over your head. Any eyewitness account of an officer clubbing someone in this defensive posture makes it a questionable act.

If, like in pipoman's example, you receive an unprovoked attack I think it is well within your rights to defend yourself. Just plan on spending a lot of time with the criminal justice system.
 
Yes, you are legally entitled to defend yourself against excessive force, or an unlawful arrest. However, you better be damn sure you are right, because if you are not, there will be hell to pay. It does happen, we do make mistakes, and there are some of us that should not be behind a badge.

This being said, if it were me, Id take the lumps from the cops, and sue them in civil court.
Click to expand...

Total agreement here.

I'll even go a bit further...

Yes, there ARE real JBT's wearing badges, who for some unknown reason managed to sneak past the psych test and the interviews and the polygraph. They use their uniform and badge to build a God complex, and heaven help you if you are in their way.

So, what do you do if you find yourself at the mercy of one of these hooligans?

First, become TOTALLY compliant. It's a bitter pill to swallow, but you almost always lose a fight with a cop--either on the street or in court.

If you are on a traffic stop, try to stay in front of the patrol car. That's where the camera is usually pointed, and video is your friend.

Next, remember EVERYTHING the cop says or does. And after the incident, make a written statement.

Now, here's the important part:

After the incident, make sure that you have four copies of the statement.

One is kept by you.
The second copy goes to your attorney.
The third copy goes to the Chief of Police of whatever department dealt with you, and:
The fourth copy goes to your State Patrol.

Above all, keep your wits about you.
 
This question always comes up in regards to the "what if police kick in your door" scenario.

To that, I say: You are required to refrain from interfering with a police investigation.

Cops are always required to announce when they make an entry. So, if a BUNCH of people come pouring into your house yelling "Police!", you are required to comply. If you shoot at them, you will most certainly get killed, or worse, tried and imprisoned as a cop killer.

The only thing I can think of in which self-defense might work against a cop is if the cops were beating someone up (think Rodney King), and the person got in a few shots to the officers during the beating. Then, after they acquitted the officers in a coverup of the incident, they would probably also rule self-defense for the beaten man's assault of an officer charge.

Or, as recently happened, if a cop pulls a woman over and attempts to rape her, and she draws and shoots him, it would be self-defense.

Basically, if a cop tells you to freeze, put your hands on your head, open your door, whatever... DO IT. Don't be a crusader. Heroes can change the world, but crusaders just die and leave a wake of problems behind them.
 
There are a couple NYCPD Detectives (Louis Eppolito is one) who have been convicted of being mob executioners... then the charges got tossed on statute of limitations grounds. Now most of the people who they dissapeared were connected with organized crime but one guy just happenned to have the same name and was taken care of by mistake....


So we know that the real, horror movie/nightmare situation can happen. That being said it is truely the 1 in 1,000,000 situation. If you are in it then do what you have to because death is the only alternative.

The Hollywood Nightmare Scenario aside I would try to comply, not fight, and take the beating they gave me. It will not be pleasant for certain but to resist in such a case will be worse. There are probably more than one and they have experience dealing with hardenned criminals who do not resist. Joe Blow citizen, without the daily exposure to physical violence and fighting seen by the average criminal or cop is highly unlikely to do anything but bring more pain upon himself. Take the beating and try to protect things like your eyes (which can't be replaced too easily). Then get a lawyer at take ownership of the city in which it occurred.
 
and there are some of us that should not be behind a badge
Click to expand...

I'm glad that there are officers out there who do realize that they sometime work with morons. More power to you liliy!:D It takes a real man to tell the truth.
 
Cops are always required to announce when they make an entry.
Click to expand...

Just to clarify, this is not true at all. There are many instances of no-knock warrants, which do not require any announcement whatsoever. We can all see and understand how this is normally a very bad idea on the officer's behalf, but it does happen. Shock and Awe, and all that, you know.
 
Yes occasionally...

Twice I have had the badge boys at gunpoint.

Once, in Texas, at night. I had a problem with folks breaking into my house through the doggie door inside my fence. One night, I heard someone outside and grabbed the shotgun to go have a look. Arrived at the gate just as someone was coming through. I pumped a round into the chamber, and turned on the flashlight (:rolleyes: yup).

Needless to say, the gate came open no further.

"I'm a cop!" says he. "I'm coming into your yard, put down the gun!"
"No, you aren't, if you need something, go to the front door!", says I.

rumble rumble, radio traffic

"Oh crap!", thinks I, " that really was a cop!:eek: "

ring, ring "Hello, rangermonroe? This is the FT.Bend Co Sheriff Dept. There is a deputy at your front door, please leave your gun and answer the door."

:o "Howdy officer."

:o "Sir, I thought I saw someone outside your house and decided to check it out for you. You scared the crap outta me!"

All ended well.

'Nuther time:

I was working downtown at one of my inner city properties, renovating a dump 'crack house'. Weekend day about 3pm. I had my 3yo son with me, doing 'man stuff'.

Little man and I were vaccuming up some drywall debris when I hear someone in the kitchen. We are the end of a dead end hallway, no where to go.

I was greeted by two fellows standing across the kitchen, approaching me. I told them I would be with them in a moment, "wait right there".

Both continued into the kitchen, glad handing me as they came. At this point, I slid little man behind me, and drew.

They still didn't stop! As they reached the end of the hallway, I thumbed the hammer back..sig 229.. and took up slack.

"Stop, or I will kill you where you stand!"

He did, I didn't have to. I was about 2 heartbeats away from it.

As it turns out, he was an off duty cop, "checking out this place".

What I failed to notice, was his 'duty belt' slung like bandoleer over his shoulder. Had I noticed that he was armed, this likely would have had a sadder outcome.
 
As for filing a complaint, get a lawyer before you do so. There have been many instances of people who went into a station to file a complaint and the duty sergant implying legal consequences if they do not win their complaint.
 
That is, if they are even willing to give you the complaint form without bringing you into their locked enclave and grilling you for a while.
 
There are many instances of no-knock warrants, which do not require any announcement whatsoever.
Click to expand...

Must disagree. No-knock warrants are just that. They excuse a cop from "knocking." But once inside, they still have to "announce" that they are cops. How else would one know that they should surrender?

So, if all of a sudden, your door breaks down, and people start flooding in your door screaming, "Police, get down!", you should do it.
 
Unfortunately it's going to be you against more than one. If you fight harder, they have weapons to stop you. They now all carry tazers here, along with guns, batons and pepper spray. I have been called out to alot of tazer calls since they gotten them. Most seem to have been legit, but who knows if the story by the officers are being fabricated in some cases.

Anywho, the more you resist and fight, the more weapons they will break out against you. What is the liklihood that if you are being abused, and you fight, that it won't escalate to a fatality, the fatality being you?

I think the odds are very much against you for fighting unless you KNOW they will take your life if you don't.
 
WOW! I guess this is why we have some guys out there shooting cops. These guys are label the BG....but are they all BG? Good Question here.
 
Or are they all good guys? Maybe that is the real reason for the question. Why should a thinking individual assume they are all good and work from there? Any intelligent action is situational and if the LEO is acting lawfully, there is no question of "defense" but rather "resisting". So I think the question is quite valid and has nothing to do with any belief that they are all bad.

If you think this is the reason why people are out there shooting cops, you are either foolish or purposely mixing criminals shooting police who are acting according to their proper duties with lawful citizens in situations where people with badges are acting criminally and dangerously. Either way, it distorts the situation.

Regardless, the no-knock warrant does create more confusion. If a criminal is bold enough to go through the front door, I doubt it is beyond them to mis-identify themselves as police. Bounty-hunters have also been known to purposely dress similarly to police, with purposely similar markings. Now, if you happen to be somebody who has no outstanding warrants and they have the wrong address, neither side may act correctly.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top