Can someone help me out with my handgun accuracy?

G

greyson97

New member
I'm a relatively new shooter. I'm perplexed by my terrible accuracy at 7 yards. I read the article by massad ayoob on how to shoot a hand gun accurately.

http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob85.html

and Ive recently adopted fingerprint trigger squeeze over first joint pull. I'm still on the fence about holding the gun lightly or, squeezing it as hard as i can without shaking.

the first clip I shot was through my Glock 22 (.40 S&W)
Glock 22


this second pic, most the targets were hit with about a clip of 17 rounds of 9mm through my PX4. the top left had 2 clips. the top right is my glock again.
i shot them in order of, top left, top right, middle left, middle right, bottom left, and bottom right.

i got steadily worse as i progressed!
Targets

if any of you can glean what I am doing wrong from looking at my targets, any help would be appreciated. thanks
 
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Secondly, your groups aren't too bad, considering you're admittedly new to shooting. You're on paper, which is a lot better than what I've seen from most new shooters at 7 yards.

Get your sights aligned correctly, focus on the front sight (everything else should be out of focus, including the target), relax your breathing, and slowly squeeze the trigger. Do not pull or jerk it. Call the shot by imagining where the bullet would go for a few seconds after you shoot - don't let go of the trigger immediately. This will help with follow-through.

The important thing when starting out is to take it as slowly as possible. Almost to the point of embarrassment. Don't pay attention to the guys blasting away in the next lane. Notice that their targets look like Swiss cheese. Take between 10-20 seconds for each shot making sure you are concentrating on the basics. Your groups will tighten up as you get more trigger time and develop the right muscle memory. Your speed will naturally increase.

Hope this helps.
 
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Before you can shoot action style shooting, you need to learn the fundamentals of pistol shooting.

I would study the USAMU's Pistol Marksmanship Guide. If interested I have it on PDF file. PM me with your e-mail adddress and I'll send it to you.

I'm starting a road trip in a couple hours so if I dont get the request by then it may take me a while to get back to you.
 
You say you are a new pistol shooter, but you do not say how many times you have shot. Maybe you are still trying to find out the shooting style that is best for you...

Find a stance you are comfortable with and practice. Then practice some more. The even more. Very few people are expert pistol shooters with just a few hundred rounds.

Things I have seen people do wrong:
They anticipate their shot. They close their eyes and kinda "scrunch-up" before the shot.
They pull the trigger. This causes the whole gun to move off target.
They go for quantity over quality. More shot are better than accurate shots?
They move their pistol off of the target. I see this mostly in single action pistols. They let the recoil of the gun pull the barrel up so they can cock it with their thumb. (I am guilty of this one, big time!)
To far to the target. (Although 7 yards is a good distance) Trying to shoot a pistol on a 50 yard range. It was not designed for that.

I recommend that people start with a smaller gun and work their way up to the larger calibres. I always start new folks out with a .22 pistol. The recoil is most manageable, they still get the noise factor and they get to see holes in their target.
Just my thoughts on this, but watch the fundamentals and the target with end up with holes in it, along with more practice.
 
I think i have fired less than 1000 rounds through my PX4. Its probabbly close to 600-700.

I use the weaver stance, where my feet are at 90 degrees of each other, my left foot forward, since im right handed, and my right foot to 90 degree perpendicular to the line my left foot makes. I try and lean forward, shoulders forward of hips. Both hands on the gun. none of my arms are locked.

I'm trying to use the fingerprint part of my finger to pull the trigger so it goes straight back. but i also experiment with fingernail.

i dont know about my breathing. and i try and take it slow, but then arm fatigue sets in, and my arm wavers more.

I do put the gun down from time to time to get a rest.

I have a PX4 storm 9mm. I'm pretty sure the gun is accurate, and that its me, but I always have doubts about it. and the recoil on the px4 is very very manageable.

so a question: when i fire, do i let the gun jump, or do i hold it so hard, that after i fire the gun doesnt move barely, and the sights still pretty on target
 
I would highly suggest removing the foregrip from your Glock and then removing the picture as well :) . That is very illegal in the BATF's eyes.
 
I've chimed in on this subject enough that I'll just paste links (within a link) to what my thoughts are.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3264345&postcount=13

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=5345492&postcount=22

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=5543678&postcount=3

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3263699&postcount=6

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3265087&postcount=19

I agree with some of what's already been said - as a new shooter, your groups aren't that bad (CortJestr), but you need to work on the fundamentals before doing anything fancy (kraigwy). Even then, you'll need to remember that you never get beyond the fundamentals - you just apply them better and, if applicable, faster.

I also agree with the suggestion to get a .22 (or a good airgun). It's not impossible for a new shooter to become a good shooter by shooting .40S&W exclusively, but it'll be a lot cheaper to get there with a .22. For financial reasons alone, you may never become the shooter you aspire to without a .22, IMO.

The USAMU manual is excellent. I suggest you take kraigwy up on his offer. If not, individual chapters can be read at bullseyepistol.com, which itself contains a lot of excellent info.
 
I'm trying to use the fingerprint part of my finger to pull the trigger so it goes straight back. but i also experiment with fingernail.
Click to expand...

This may be more of a preference thing and what works best for you. I find that if I use the pad or tips of my fingers, my shots pull more to the right or left, depending on the gun I use. Not much, but enough to make it annoying. I know a lot of target/competition shooters use the pad or tips for better performance, but their triggers are often tuned so light that the gun is better suited to shooting this way. Again for best results for me, I use the "power crease" - the first joint on the index finger.

i dont know about my breathing. and i try and take it slow, but then arm fatigue sets in, and my arm wavers more.
Click to expand...

Take it slowly, as I recommended, but not that slow. If your arm starts to fatigue, take a breather and try again, as you have been.

I have a PX4 storm 9mm. I'm pretty sure the gun is accurate, and that its me, but I always have doubts about it. and the recoil on the px4 is very very manageable.
Click to expand...

There's an easy test to determine if it's you or the gun. Have an experienced shooter shoot your gun and see what groups s/he gets.

so a question: when i fire, do i let the gun jump, or do i hold it so hard, that after i fire the gun doesnt move barely, and the sights still pretty on target
Click to expand...

Again, this is for me, but my grip is somewhere in between. Not too loose to limp wrist the gun and not too hard to cause any shaking. It's kind of like my golf grip, actually. I know Massad Ayoob advocates the "death grip," but it just never worked for me.
 
I'm still fairly new to shooting myself (that could be misinterpreted:eek:) and here's what I've found most improved my early shooting.

First and foremost is gaining trigger control. It's amazing the difference a good trigger pull makes. Dry fire practice is a good way to work on that. For me, the pad of my finger works best, but give both pad and knuckle a try while watching the front sight closely for movement. Try to get the trigger to slide backwards smoothly without any pressure side-to-side.

Try locking your arms in an isosceles stance. This may not work for you as well as it does me, but it's different from what you're doing, so give it a try. As for grip strength, I tried the death grip, then tried the super relaxed grip. Eventually I found that backing off the death grip just a bit (enough that it's hard bu you're not straining or thinking about it) makes for a steady shot. Another bit of advice that improved my shot was to take the shot when your sights first align. Don't try to hold the sight centered for a long time. Align your sight picture and shoot before it begins to drift.
 
PhoenixConflagration raised a few points I was going to raise, but I'll just embellish.

First, stop using the first joint of your finger. About the only time I do that is the first shot of a DA/SA auto or when firing a wheelgun with a heavy trigger pull. You want to use the pad of your finger where the center of your fingerprint usually is located. Here's why;

Use an unloaded pistol and cock the hammer. Use just the pad of your index finger resting on the face of the trigger and try to move it straight back without jerking the gun around. Repeat this several times, carefully watching if the gun moves while you apply pressure.

Now repeat this same process, using the first joint of your finger. You'll most likely find three things happen;
1. You can't move your finger in a straight line to the rear.
2. As you apply pressure, the tip of your finger puts pressure on the gun/trigger from the side, pushing it off target slightly.
3. The extra "reach" through the trigger puts the underside of the finger in contact with the frame, adding further pressure to screw up your sight alignment.

This applies to about 99% of shooters and it is worth the effort to learn to use the pad. Nothing really wrong with the first joint when leverage is required, but your accuracy will be much better using the pad of the finger.

Grip checkpoints:
  • Barrel centerline lines up with forearm between wrist & elbow.
  • Grip is as high up on the gun as you can get.
  • Both thumbs point towards target.
  • Forearms parallel to the ground
  • Due to #4, you bring your head forward & down to see the sights.
  • You must breathe. In slow fire, inhale and let out half the air then squeeze the trigger. Don't delay so that you're holding your breath. That will fatigue your arms faster. In combat shooting, breathe during any pauses or transitions to another target.
  • Grip the gun firmly enough that I could not take it out of your hands in a casual grab. It's not an orange so you don't want to try to squeeze the juice out of it.
  • Align your sights and squeeze the trigger. Do not attempt to get the "perfect" sight picture. If the top of the front sight is level and on target and the front sight is between the rear sights, take the shot. Dallying about fatigues the muscles and makes getting a good shot more difficult.
  • Don't rush the shot. Don't try to shoot quickly when the sights are aligned lest you jerk the trigger. If possible, you can establish a nice rhythm or cadence for shooting and still be accurate.

Your groups, per the photos, are not that bad. You are keeping mostly inside the 9-ring with a little wandering it appears. Here's the USAMU chart that will help you pinpoint bad habits you might be developing.

pistolcorrection_chart.gif

If your shots are clustering around 10 o'clock, that postition's text will tell you want you need to correct.
 
You can do a couple of things to break down the components of accuracy.

First is your grip, you should use the same grip consistently. each time you pick up the gun. With the gun unloaded, practice picking it up and gripping it as if you would shoot. Let your mind key in on key pressure points where the gun makes contact with your hands and fingers. Memorize how that feels through repetition. Do this 50 time a day.

Trigger Pull. Go to the range with a sandbag or some kind of other rest for the gun. Find a chair, sit down and take your stance out of the equation altogether. Position the chair and bag so you can line the gun with a target down range. Grip the gun two handed and put the but of the gun, or your weak side hand on the support bag and arrange yourself so you can comfortably get a good site picture on the target. With the gun unloaded, and a snap cap in the chamber, practice your trigger squeeze while keeping the sites aligned with the target. Focus on the front sight, let the target blur in your vision. Work on the trigger squeeze until you can do it and not pull the front site off the target. Do this at least a hundred times, load up a magazine and try it live. See what kind of group you can get now? This is what you are going to strive for as you work on the rest of the process.

Time to work on the same thing as above, but this time do it standing, and without the sandbag rest. Practice through this process:
With the empty gun on the bench,
Plant your feet shoulder width apart with your weak side foot slightly ahead and angled about 45 degrees off the line to the target.
Pick up the gun, establish your grip
Raise the gun and align the sites
Squeeze the trigger while maintaining the sight picture. When the hammer falls, it should be a suprise, that's how slow to do it. The whole time, maintain the sight picture and alginment.
Put the gun down on the bench, relax.

Now do it all again, at least 50 times. You are training your muscle memory. Now load the magazine and do the same thing.

Shooting is like any other sport, you have to train your muscle memory, mind, and eyes through repetition. Don't underestimate the benefit you get from dry fire practice that must include the entire shot plan from establishing a stance, picking up the gun, establishing grip, site alignment, and trigger squeeze. And lastly, don't forget to follow through on the trigger squeeze the same way after each attempt. You've got to drill this into your brain...repeat it many times. Do it at home (double check the gun is empty PLEASE!!) at least 25-50 times a day.

Keep at it, and you'll get better. Periodically do the excersize seated from a sandbag to remind yourself what the gun is capable of. You'll even see those groups from a rest improve a lot as you practice.
 
Follow through is everything you do after the shot breaks;
What your trigger finger does
How you react to recoil and let it move the gun
What you do with your stance
What you do with your grip

Consistency is the key to accuracy, do it the same each time because the bullet is still in the barrel when your followthrough comes into play.
 
I was always taught to use the pad of the finger, but it doesn't work for me nearly as well as using the first joint (power crease) does. For different sized hands, and for different guns, a different technique will work better or worse for different people. So, with all due respect to the stuff posted above, I am one of the people who consistently found that the joint works a lot better, FOR ME< than the finger pad.

Dry fire, dry fire, dry fire. There is no substitute. I forget the ratio of dry fire shots to live ammo shots one is supposed to take, but it is something like 1,000 (dry fire) to 1 live fire or something like that, believe it or not. What I've heard is that you should dry fire for 10 to 15 minutes every night and after a week you'll have made a lot of improvement in your shooting.

Honestly, I don't work for Crimson Trace and I am not a saleman (I work in a non-firearms field), but whether you believe in using Crimson Trace lasergrips for carry guns or not, they are a great practice tool for dry firing. If the laser dots jumps, bumps, or moves, you're doing it wrong and you can see it right with your very own eyes. So, give that some thought.

There's lots of insistent people in our hobby who will tell you that it has to be done a certain way or forget shooting... Forget them. Take what you can from the advice everyone offers and leave the rest. There's not only one way to do anything in life. But remember to think about dry firing, a lot.
 
with your pistol grip, how many of you (for right handed shooters) push forward with the right hand, and pull back with the left hand, creating pressure on the gun from the front anf back?

when you guys suggest I dry fire the gun, do you mean in SA or DA? because I am dry firing the gun in SA, the front sight is rock solid and does not move
 
lol. turns out dry firing when sitting and dry firing when standing are completely different. and I realized i was snatching the gun when i had aquired the target, causing me to jerk the trigger and push the gun forwards and downwards.

they say to squeeze the trigger so when the gun goes off its a complete surprise. My SA Trigger is so crisp that I always know when it is going to go off because I draw all the slack from the trigger before I fire.
 
First, as you get tired, your performance will deteriorate. You'll improve more quickly with more frequent, but shorter practice sessions than with less frequent but longer sessions. Practice doesn’t make perfect. It’s “PERFECT practice makes perfect.”

Second, I've found that in teaching people to shoot, it's better to focus on doing everything right than to try to figure out what you're doing wrong.

The first principle of accurate shooting is trigger control: a smooth, press straight back on the trigger with only the trigger finger moving. Maintain your focus on the front sight as you press the trigger, increasing pressure on the trigger until the shot breaks. Don't try to predict exactly when the gun will go off nor try to cause the shot to break at a particular moment. This is what Jeff Cooper called the "surprise break."


By keeping focus on the front sight and increasing pressure on the trigger until the gun essentially shoots itself, you don’t anticipate the shot breaking. But if you try to make the shot break at that one instant in time when everything seem steady and aligned, you usually wind up jerking the trigger. Of course the gun will wobble some on the target. Try not to worry about the wobble and don’t worry about trying to keep the sight aligned on a single point. Just let the front sight be somewhere in a small, imaginary box in the center of the target.

Also, work on follow through. Be aware of where on the target the front sight is as the shot breaks and watch the front sight lift off that point as the gun recoils – all the time maintaining focus on the front sight.

Practice deliberately, making every shot count, to program good habits and muscle memory. Dry practice is very helpful. You just want to triple check that the gun is not loaded, and there should be no ammunition anywhere around. When engaging in dry practice, religiously follow Rule 2 - Never Let Your Muzzle Cover Anything You Are Not Willing To Destroy." As you dry fire, you want to reach the point where you can't see any movement of the sight as the sear releases and the hammer falls.

Finally, some instruction is always a good idea. I try to take classes from time to time; and I always learn something new.

Think: front sight, press, surprise.
 
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