Can someone explain the difference in this terminology?

S

Steven_Seagal

New member
I'm not the most well versed in Ammunition lingo/terminology. I am working in the gun industry and come across minor semantic issues that i have questions about. I do enjoy shooting guns and grew up around them and am familiar with them, but I am not an expert or even an avid shooter, so please bear with me.

Can someone explain the difference between the following? :

.45 ACP vs .45 Colt

.357 mag vs .357 sig - mag is simply longer casing right?

.223 vs 5.56 NATO - as far as i know, these are the same

Also, what is "Ball" ammunition?
 
.45 ACP is a rimless cartridge used for auto and semi-auto guns, .45 Colt (Also sometimes called ".45 Long Colt") is a rimmed revolver cartridge.

.357 Sig is a necked-down .40 S&W cartridge, while the .357 magnum is a traditional straight-walled rimmed cartridge.

.223/5.56 - largely interchangeable, except that 5.56 NATO pressures may be higher than a particular .223 rifle is designed to handle. The chambers also differ slightly. You can find more than you'll ever want to know on Google.

"Ball" ammunition is another way of saying "full metal jacket". The military often uses this designation.
 
actually, all of that can be found in pretty good detail on wikipedia. They have very good quality articles on ammunition and other gun items.
 
Today, in the military, ball ammunition does indeed mean full metal jacket with an inert projectile (not tracer, incendiary or explosive). But it was not always thus. The term comes from the early days of firearms, when a bullet was simply a lead ball. So when fixed ammunition was adopted, "ball ammunition" meant a cartridge with a simple solid bullet, almost always (in those days), of lead.

So "ball" ammunition in general just means cartridges with plain old bullets, nothing fancy.

Jim
 
.357 Sig is a necked-down .40 S&W cartridge, while the .357 magnum is a traditional straight-walled rimmed cartridge.
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It bears mentioning that these cartridges are not interchangeable. The .357 SIG has a wider casing, and will not fit in a .357 Magnum cylinder. The .357 Magnum typically has higher velocities and often uses heavier bullets.

Be sure to ask your customers which they need. During the Panic of 2009, I saw easily two dozen people show up with .357 SIG that had been given to them in error by clerks at big-box stores.
 
It is also worth noting that both .45 ACP and .357 Sig were developed in order to mimic the performance of their older, revolver counterparts in a semi-automatic package or at least certain loadings.

Typically, any gun chambered for 5.56x45 NATO can also safely fire .223 Remington ammunition but the reverse may not be true. The converse situation exists between .308 Winchester and 7.62x51 NATO, two more cartridges which are dimensionally identical. Commercial .308 Win ammo is loaded to slightly higher pressure than 7.62 NATO, so any .308 gun can also shoot 7.62 ammo but not necessarily the other way around.

If you really want to be confused, wait until you get into the various 9mm cartridges and some of the various names which refer to the same cartridge such as 9mm Luger, 9mm Parabellum, 9mm NATO, 9x19, 9mm Short, 9x17, 9mm Kurz, 9mm Corto, 9x18 Makarov, 9mm Browning Long, 9x20SR, 9x18 Ultra, 9x18 Police, 9mm Nambu, 9x21, 9mm Largo, 9mm Steyr, 9mm Mauser, 9mm Bergmann-Bayard, and 9x23 Winchester.
 
A copy of Cartridges of the World will be a help, too.
Some types of research are easier to flip pages for than enter a google.
 
+1 on the .357 sig confusion. I stopped at a walmart sporting goods counter and asked for .357 ammo and the guy said all he had was .357 sig.

I'm not sure, but I took that to mean that he didn't know the difference, or assumed I was a moron.

The proper answer would have been "i have no .357 magnum. Sorry."
 
not necessarily - one thing a bout the two 357's - the Sig is meant for a semi, while the magnum is typically a revolver cartridge
 
Nobody will know what you mean --- if you ask for .357 ammo .....you need to be specific ......do you want .357 Sig or .357 Magnum ..then there is no confusion.

Just because they work a retail counter at a sporting goods store or a gun store for that matter - doesn't mean they know anything beyond the basics. Give them a break / educate them a little(and be nice about it ) - and be specific in what you are looking for .....

Not everyone on this forum is well informed in every aspect of this hobby / I know I certainly am not. I know a lot about some guns and ammo ...and little or nothing on many types of guns, ammo, etc .... I focus on what I like to shoot / what I like to collect etc ...and while I read a lot about guns I have no interest in ....asking questions is not a big deal.
 
Sounds good. The clerk may not know what he is selling so you should know what you are buying. Specify what you want and read the label before you buy.

But then there are the people who post here with the question: "What did I just buy?"
 
We have a fairly new Gnader here. When they first opened and the Obama scare was rampant, too many folks who had just bought their first gun - either a 38 snub or one of the 380s were buying the wrong ammo and running into issues (DUH!) and then trying to return the same. I know of no business that accepts returns on ammo due to liability. They then had to put BIG signs all over the place - 38 Super is NOT 38 Special..........9x18 is not the same as 9mm Luger, etc.......

Point is, NEVER assume someone else is thinking and understanding your statement the same way you are.
 
I DID ask specifically for .357 magnum, specifically 125 grain HP. I guess I assumed that you folks would give me enough credit for that, and left it out.

If I'd have asked only for .357, or .38, i'd have been in the wrong, and not be here telling mean stories about the guy at the walmart.
 
It may be because I'm from the lowly Midwest where there aren't a lot of people, but I have to disagree. If you walk in to a store and ask for .357 or .38, in my experience it almost universally means .357 Magnum or .38 Special. Same goes with literally dozens of other cartridges (if you ask for .270, you should expect .270 Win, not WSM.) I am of the opinion that if you're shooting something that's out of the ordinary (relatively) you should ask for it specifically, whereas asking for something as common as .357 Magnum shouldn't require that you would HAVE to use "magnum" to get what you want. I understand, however, that the burden ultimately lies on us, not the clerk.
 
I asked for .38 Super, and they brought be a box of .38 Special, "It fits all .38s, that's why it's special."
 
I asked for .38 Super, and they brought be a box of .38 Special, "It fits all .38s, that's why it's special."
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That's a hoot.

I'm from southwest missouri. The lower classes of people here are an absolute sin against nature, and here, instead of being isolated to the boonies, they live right next door, and are the people who stock your stores and fix your food.

The walmart store here in the west part of town is generally known as "the freak show" among friends and family. Some of the people whom I have encountered there would be really hard pressed to know the difference between toilet paper and printer paper.

I can easily see them selling .22 magnum to someone with a .22 rimfire, because "these are the hot ones."

When I go to a real city, my God, it is so refreshing to see real people, instead of the ones I rub shoulders with.

I work in the mental health industry. Most of you guys would never in a million years believe the things that are really going on around you.

What's really sad, is that my daughter dated nearly every one of them...
 
briandg said:
I DID ask specifically for .357 magnum, specifically 125 grain HP. I guess I assumed that you folks would give me enough credit for that, and left it out.

If I'd have asked only for .357, or .38, i'd have been in the wrong, and not be here telling mean stories about the guy at the walmart.
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Probably many of us assumed that you might give the employee enough credit based on the very words you typed. Even when walking among lower-class/sin-against-nature people, forgiving trespasses as one has been forgiven is good form. And I think it's been pretty well established here that many if not most ammo, TV, and other salespersons, especially at Walmart, probably shouldn't be primary targets for information on their respective products.
 
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