Blindstitch
New member
Can of worms topic on a slippery slope. The left doesn't care they just want to win their agenda at all costs.
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Can some of the real rifle experts answer this question for me?
- Thread starter Bamabuilt
- Start date
No, these issues have always been around. We have had killers like Caligula, the James boys, Dillinger, Hitler and Himmler around ever since time began (usually self-centered sociopaths with no regard for others' rights or ideas that disagree with theirs). The biggest difference is that society used to make sure kids understood the difference between right and wrong at a fairly early age. Nowadays they are taught that there is no right or wrong, it's how you feel that makes it right or wrong. Morality is a no-no, and protecting kids from the consequences of their actions is a mandate. So you get kids that commit minor crimes at early ages, and they are sheltered from law enforcement by short-sighted teachers who are trying to be nice, which leads them to commit bigger crimes because they got away with it the last time. It's a very complex issue that gets people all fired up because some of those kids are theirs. Solution? Don't know.These issues started rising up in the 80's
Photo fail. No .30-30 Winchester.Here is a good picture outlining the relative sizes and uses of various cartridges. It is simplified; but it conveys the general idea nicely.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Sze12QUWC...JF-3Fhl2X4/s1600/090204_101_bulletcaliber.jpg
Don Fischer
New member
JFK was killed with a bolt action, not sure type or caliber.
I think the Texas University Tower shooter used a bolt action also, Rem 700 I think.
Im not a rifle expert, But if someone had no access at all to any semi automatic rifle.
I would think a security model 12ga pump loaded with 00buck and backed up with a handgun would make for an extremely nasty loadout for a building shooter.
Anyone hit sold with a 12ga at room distance is going to be in no condition to do anything but crawl in a corner and hopefully not bleed to death.
Look at LV, crap ton of rounds, crap ton of injured, relatively few fatalities.. higher powered rifle aimed for effect.. fewer shot, more dead imo.
No doubt 223 is a powerful caliber but relative to other rifle calibers it's pretty animic..
That's what both funny and sad when the gun grabbers talk about it being a weapon of mass destruction and give a pass to your grand pappies 30-06 deer rifle.
It was a mannlicker in 6.5x52 if I remember right.
johnwilliamson062
Moderator
Thread of the week.
When OP says 30-30, does he mean lever action?
When he says 30-06 does he mean bolt action rifle?
Aren't there 30-30 ARs?
When OP says 30-30, does he mean lever action?
When he says 30-06 does he mean bolt action rifle?
Aren't there 30-30 ARs?
Blindstitch
New member
I'm partially under the assumption that a lot of people that reference AR don't even know what caliber it is and second if they do assume they only come in 223/556.
I hear the AR-17 shoots even more projectiles than an AR-15.
I hear the AR-17 shoots even more projectiles than an AR-15.
JoeSixPack wrote:
JFK was killed with a bolt action, not sure type or caliber.
How about Googling it before you post?
6.5mm Mannlicher Carcano. Sprecifically, a model 91/38 chambered in the Italian 6.5x52 cartridge.
Bamabuilt wrote:
I told this person a killer could use a 30-30 or 30-06 and do similar damage that a AR15 would do.
Why are you getting into an argument with some one whose mind is already made up and who doesn't know what you're talking about? After all, ignorance is not a point of view.
JoeSixpack
New member
@hdwhit
Didn't seem that important considering an ar-15 is semi automatic and not a bolt action rifle.
Didn't seem that important considering an ar-15 is semi automatic and not a bolt action rifle.
johnwilliamson062
Moderator
Why would he google it when he has a nitpicker to do it for him?
How about a belt fed lever gun? In .223 running M249 boxes. That would add casualties when the news reporters heads exploded as they tried to figure out what it was. NM, they'd just call it an AK.
How about a belt fed lever gun? In .223 running M249 boxes. That would add casualties when the news reporters heads exploded as they tried to figure out what it was. NM, they'd just call it an AK.
The left wants to focus on guns. BUT, we've had these same guns for 50 years.
WHY all the school and mass shootings NOW? The left doesn't want to talk about
gun control policies like "Gun Free Zones" , enacted recently, which are getting students and teachers killed. Why should they, when we gun owners and the NRA are such handy
scapegoats?
WHY all the school and mass shootings NOW? The left doesn't want to talk about
gun control policies like "Gun Free Zones" , enacted recently, which are getting students and teachers killed. Why should they, when we gun owners and the NRA are such handy
scapegoats?
One would think that if a person was motivated/dedicated, they would plan out their whatever in such a way as to use what is available to them.
The 9/11 attackers didn't use guns. Timothy McVigh used a truck packed with fertilizer. How many died? 268. A nut killed 38 kids in Bath, MI in 1927 when he blew up a school.
It's not about the death of the kids. If so, where's the outrage when 11 teens die every day due to texting while driving?
The 9/11 attackers didn't use guns. Timothy McVigh used a truck packed with fertilizer. How many died? 268. A nut killed 38 kids in Bath, MI in 1927 when he blew up a school.
It's not about the death of the kids. If so, where's the outrage when 11 teens die every day due to texting while driving?
I am not sure of the question. Are you saying an AR is not a more effective fighting rifle than a 30-06 bolt gun? Because that is obviously not true. The military uses military-pattern rifles because they are more effective at putting out relatively accurate fire at higher rates. And if misused, they are correspondingly more destructive in those scenarios as well. Will other firearms also kill people? Well, duh.
Bartholomew Roberts
Moderator
To understand why the military adopted the AR15, you have to read Hitchman’s “Operational Requirements for an Infantry Hand Weapon” and then a history of Project SALVO (which coincidentally mirrored a fascination with “needleguns” in sci-fi writing of that period.)
A bolt action is slower to use than a semi automatic. While it does not have to be an AR that is the coolest thing out there and what a significant number of normally non gun users buy (observations at the range)
A semi auto is easier to shoot than a bolt action, a bolt action (30-06) is far more difficult to shoot.
Cartridges are? More depends on what the bullet is (hunting, FMJ)
30-30? Not at all cool, takes some skill to use as well.
So a short handy semi auto (AR, AK, Mini 14) is going to hit more people and kill more than a bolt action rifle will.
A semi auto is easier to shoot than a bolt action, a bolt action (30-06) is far more difficult to shoot.
Cartridges are? More depends on what the bullet is (hunting, FMJ)
30-30? Not at all cool, takes some skill to use as well.
So a short handy semi auto (AR, AK, Mini 14) is going to hit more people and kill more than a bolt action rifle will.
Bartholomew Roberts
Moderator
So a short handy semi auto (AR, AK, Mini 14) is going to hit more people and kill more than a bolt action rifle will.
It is the Indian, not the arrow.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7ob0fgc0I7A
And of course, if you have twelve minutes to walk through a crowded structure with everyone huddled up like cattle in a pen, the type of action is pretty irrelevant to even a novice.
Of the recent shooting, one was conducted by someone who was military, he killed 69 I believe.
I have handled guns since I was old enough to pick one up, about 7 years old
What you are trying to say is that someone who has little to no familiarity with guns and zero training can do as much damage with a bolt action as a AR semi auto? Really?. That's like saying because I can drive I would be a successful Indy 500 driver.
And putting gas on the fire, herded up like cattle is inflammatory in my opinion.
What would you do if you had a shooter in a theatre? Hmm, that's been done hasn't it.
Concert?
The op procedure is to get the kids were inside classrooms and lock doors (would you rather they all massed in the hallway?)
The death count was relatively low in purely clinical terms of which the parents and kids adult killed won't be dealing with it.
Any time there are people present in numbers its an extremely difficult situation to deal with. Unlike today apps, you can just app them into a safe place.
You can secure a building as best you can (costly but you can do it) you can have public profiling and make sure they don't get guns (difficult ) - you can arm teachers (two of which had NDs yesterday in school) but if you are on the pointy end of the stick how do you minimize the deaths if it occurs? At that point its all you can do.
I have handled guns since I was old enough to pick one up, about 7 years old
What you are trying to say is that someone who has little to no familiarity with guns and zero training can do as much damage with a bolt action as a AR semi auto? Really?. That's like saying because I can drive I would be a successful Indy 500 driver.
And putting gas on the fire, herded up like cattle is inflammatory in my opinion.
What would you do if you had a shooter in a theatre? Hmm, that's been done hasn't it.
Concert?
The op procedure is to get the kids were inside classrooms and lock doors (would you rather they all massed in the hallway?)
The death count was relatively low in purely clinical terms of which the parents and kids adult killed won't be dealing with it.
Any time there are people present in numbers its an extremely difficult situation to deal with. Unlike today apps, you can just app them into a safe place.
You can secure a building as best you can (costly but you can do it) you can have public profiling and make sure they don't get guns (difficult ) - you can arm teachers (two of which had NDs yesterday in school) but if you are on the pointy end of the stick how do you minimize the deaths if it occurs? At that point its all you can do.
Bartholomew Roberts
Moderator
What you are trying to say is that someone who has little to no familiarity with guns and zero training can do as much damage with a bolt action as a AR semi auto? Really?. That's like saying because I can drive I would be a successful Indy 500 driver.
What I said was that even a novice can kill a lot of people if his targets are pinned in at close range and unable to run, regardless of the type of firearm used. I also said “It’s the Indian, not the arrow” and added a video to demonstrate that skill is more important than technology.
Somehow, you’ve apparently taken those two separate ideas and squashed them into a single malformed idea that you attributed to me. Do you not understand why these are two distinct ideas?