True. However we do sell them as semi-auto for civilians.
Can I show off a bit?
- Thread starter 2ndchance
- Start date
I sent you a PM
H&K has been using itnon their MP5SD for a long time. Others have, too. Not real new, but not widely used as the subgun market is very unique.
okay, maybe I am missing something here, because this seems like an impediment for ammo choice in all actuality. lets stick with an easy number and say sound barrier is right at 1100FPS at your part of the country. Most 115gr 9x19 runs velocities of 1250-1350FPS from rifle length barrels, so let's settle on 1200. So by porting to reduce velocity, you are somewhere in the ballpark of reducing FPS by 9-ish percent. That doesn't sem like much of an issue, except the fact that this is going t go for all the 9mm bullets aross the board(one would assume), so why wouldn't you run a 147gr 9mm @ 1100 rather than run a 115gr @ 1100 thereby neutering our 147gr ammo's to the mid 900's. so you made it to where you can use a less effective 115gr bullet moving at the spped a 147gr SHOULD be moving, and then killing the use of the 147gr fo any ballistic uses.
I am sorry, I hope I am coming across clearly, I am having a hard time putting my thoughts into words on this. it just seems that skipping the speed reducing ports and just running 147gr would be the best option ballistically......or is this porting system adjustable for ammo type?
I am sorry, I hope I am coming across clearly, I am having a hard time putting my thoughts into words on this. it just seems that skipping the speed reducing ports and just running 147gr would be the best option ballistically......or is this porting system adjustable for ammo type?
Skizzums, you are correct (to a point). When all things are normal, using a 147gr bullet would be an obvious choice when using a traditional handgun or rifle. Where it differs is in the subgun market.
Most subguns are running barrels that are shorter than "rifles". Most have barrels around 6-9 inches. So most 9mm 115gr never reach their full potential speed. Still, a 9mm doesn't need that much velocity to reach terminal performance. Terminal Performance being defined as "minimum of 12 inches of penetration with expansion".
The average hollow point ammo has a min/max fps that looks like this:
9mm 115gr JHP (800-1400 fps)
9mm 124gr JHP (850-1400 fps)
9mm 147gr JHP (725-1200 fps)
Too little velocity and you loose penetration and marginal expansion. Too much velocity and you get projectile breakdown and over penetration.
This carbine was developed with the law enforcement officers in mind. Most are carrying a Glock 9mm with 115gr or 124gr JHP in their magazines. Firing from their service pistol, both would be effective and very LOUD as they are moving supersonic.
A traditional 115gr 9mm leaves our barrel around 1020-fps. A 147gr is around 820-fps. Both bullet weights fall within the min/max, so the hollow point will still perform.
If the LEO had to transition to our D3-9SD carbine for urban areas, their same ammo will still perform very well in our carbine, while providing the ultimate in sound suppression and stealth. They may be able to avoid seeing themselves on YouTube from video taken by nearby citizens, because everybody seems to have their phone at the ready, when police shows up in their neighborhood.
124gr and 147gr ammunition are not cheap, either Now, you can practice or plink with inexpensive Wolf or Tula ammo. This is also where it really benefits the civilian market. Cheap ammo for recreational shooters is a staple item. I also much rather burn a 1000 round case of Wolf 115gr for $160, versus spending over $250 for decent subsonic.
One thing is for certain is that the carbine and the slowed down 9mm won't be an issue on performance. It will be a money saver on ammo cost.
The overall benefit with the D3-9SD is you get a very accurate carbine, that is small is size, super quiet, has very familiar mechanics, and uses the common and reliable Glock mags. If you are an owner of a SBR 9mm AR-style lower already, then you can just purchase the upper (less bolt carrier and charging handle) and install it on your SBR lower.
We're running a sale right now. You can buy the upper for your SRB'd lower for around $1,400 + shipping.
Most subguns are running barrels that are shorter than "rifles". Most have barrels around 6-9 inches. So most 9mm 115gr never reach their full potential speed. Still, a 9mm doesn't need that much velocity to reach terminal performance. Terminal Performance being defined as "minimum of 12 inches of penetration with expansion".
The average hollow point ammo has a min/max fps that looks like this:
9mm 115gr JHP (800-1400 fps)
9mm 124gr JHP (850-1400 fps)
9mm 147gr JHP (725-1200 fps)
Too little velocity and you loose penetration and marginal expansion. Too much velocity and you get projectile breakdown and over penetration.
This carbine was developed with the law enforcement officers in mind. Most are carrying a Glock 9mm with 115gr or 124gr JHP in their magazines. Firing from their service pistol, both would be effective and very LOUD as they are moving supersonic.
A traditional 115gr 9mm leaves our barrel around 1020-fps. A 147gr is around 820-fps. Both bullet weights fall within the min/max, so the hollow point will still perform.
If the LEO had to transition to our D3-9SD carbine for urban areas, their same ammo will still perform very well in our carbine, while providing the ultimate in sound suppression and stealth. They may be able to avoid seeing themselves on YouTube from video taken by nearby citizens, because everybody seems to have their phone at the ready, when police shows up in their neighborhood.
124gr and 147gr ammunition are not cheap, either Now, you can practice or plink with inexpensive Wolf or Tula ammo. This is also where it really benefits the civilian market. Cheap ammo for recreational shooters is a staple item. I also much rather burn a 1000 round case of Wolf 115gr for $160, versus spending over $250 for decent subsonic.
One thing is for certain is that the carbine and the slowed down 9mm won't be an issue on performance. It will be a money saver on ammo cost.
The overall benefit with the D3-9SD is you get a very accurate carbine, that is small is size, super quiet, has very familiar mechanics, and uses the common and reliable Glock mags. If you are an owner of a SBR 9mm AR-style lower already, then you can just purchase the upper (less bolt carrier and charging handle) and install it on your SBR lower.
We're running a sale right now. You can buy the upper for your SRB'd lower for around $1,400 + shipping.
michaelkih
Inactive
Very cool! If it will fit a RDIAS, I'll buy one.
Mike
Mike
It will accept any AR fire group. In the past we've used drop in groups like POF and Elfman, so your RDIAS should drop right in. Feel free to contact me about your purchase options.
d3llcgroup@gmail.com
The Few The Proud
New member
Cool
I liked what I saw. I am interested in knowing more about the make up of the semi auto version. What's going to be the cost of the semi auto. Is the rifle in full production yet or are there just demo units out.
I liked what I saw. I am interested in knowing more about the make up of the semi auto version. What's going to be the cost of the semi auto. Is the rifle in full production yet or are there just demo units out.
Hello "The Few The Proud"
Yes, they are in production. Feel free to email me any specific questions about our carbine or suppressed system. You can get more details on our web site. Here's link to our suppressed system's page:
http://www.d3llc.com/#!suppressed-systems/y31ea
Our web site list MSRP. Feel free to email me about a specific build and build time. I can also quote you an exact price via email.
D3LLCgroup@gmail.com
NOTE: We are in the process of moving across town, to a larger space. We expect to be shut down the rest of the month of December so we can focus on getting the new location operational. I'm still reachable via email
For 2016 we will be offering our D3-9SD in three build options
1. Complete Carbine, built with your accessory options.
2. Upper Assembly, with or without bolt carrier and charging handle, and your accessory options. This is a great option if you already own a SBR AR 9mm lower or have a standard lower and want to use a 9mm mag block conversion. Or, if you want to save some money and purchase a more budget friendly lower, like the New Frontier Armory Glock lower or the new ATI Glock lower that should be released mid-2016.
3. Barrel and Suppressor Only, those who want to build something unique. You can use almost any upper and forend, as long as the ID of the forend fits the diameter of our suppressor.
In 2016, we will no longer offer the M-LOK forend as a standard option. The locking system of the M-LOK uses a long screw and thick CAM. We have to shorten the screws and machine the CAMs slightly thinner to make it work. It's time consuming and forces customers to only buy M-LOK accessories from us.
We will gladly offer the M-LOK if you REALLY like the M-LOK system. Just know that you're going to want to order the accessories directly from us and there will be a small fee for the machining of the CAMs and screws.
We also "may" change the suppressor to a non-serviceable version. This is still undecided. Honestly, there really isn't a need to take the suppressor apart and clean it, unless you've shot 30,000+ rounds. There just isn't much fouling or carbon buildup with the 9mm cartridge (unless you are shooting lead, copper washed, or reloaded ammunition). We've just crossed over the 9,000 round mark with our original suppressor and it's still running strong without a cleaning. Every time we unscrew the suppressor off the barrel, we give it a little tap on the workbench and any buildup flakes off.
Besides, we've already had one guy take it apart and was unable to reassemble it without damaging the internal threads on the muzzle cap.
Yes, they are in production. Feel free to email me any specific questions about our carbine or suppressed system. You can get more details on our web site. Here's link to our suppressed system's page:
http://www.d3llc.com/#!suppressed-systems/y31ea
Our web site list MSRP. Feel free to email me about a specific build and build time. I can also quote you an exact price via email.
D3LLCgroup@gmail.com
NOTE: We are in the process of moving across town, to a larger space. We expect to be shut down the rest of the month of December so we can focus on getting the new location operational. I'm still reachable via email
For 2016 we will be offering our D3-9SD in three build options
1. Complete Carbine, built with your accessory options.
2. Upper Assembly, with or without bolt carrier and charging handle, and your accessory options. This is a great option if you already own a SBR AR 9mm lower or have a standard lower and want to use a 9mm mag block conversion. Or, if you want to save some money and purchase a more budget friendly lower, like the New Frontier Armory Glock lower or the new ATI Glock lower that should be released mid-2016.
3. Barrel and Suppressor Only, those who want to build something unique. You can use almost any upper and forend, as long as the ID of the forend fits the diameter of our suppressor.
In 2016, we will no longer offer the M-LOK forend as a standard option. The locking system of the M-LOK uses a long screw and thick CAM. We have to shorten the screws and machine the CAMs slightly thinner to make it work. It's time consuming and forces customers to only buy M-LOK accessories from us.
We will gladly offer the M-LOK if you REALLY like the M-LOK system. Just know that you're going to want to order the accessories directly from us and there will be a small fee for the machining of the CAMs and screws.
We also "may" change the suppressor to a non-serviceable version. This is still undecided. Honestly, there really isn't a need to take the suppressor apart and clean it, unless you've shot 30,000+ rounds. There just isn't much fouling or carbon buildup with the 9mm cartridge (unless you are shooting lead, copper washed, or reloaded ammunition). We've just crossed over the 9,000 round mark with our original suppressor and it's still running strong without a cleaning. Every time we unscrew the suppressor off the barrel, we give it a little tap on the workbench and any buildup flakes off.
Besides, we've already had one guy take it apart and was unable to reassemble it without damaging the internal threads on the muzzle cap.
With the move to take suppressors from the bad boy area, and make them available to anyone with a concealed carry license?
Can you see this going through? If it does, prices will drop. Ranges will benefit.
I own a Steyr AUG, one of the original ones, so the sight is 3" above the bore, ideal for fitting a can, no infringement on your sight line.
Can you see this going through? If it does, prices will drop. Ranges will benefit.
I own a Steyr AUG, one of the original ones, so the sight is 3" above the bore, ideal for fitting a can, no infringement on your sight line.
"I like the porting to make most all 9mm ammo weights sub-sonic. is this a new concept? I haven't heard of this practice before, but then again I am not very literate when it comes to silenced weapons."
I believe this goes back to the DeLisle if not Maxim designs. I also understand the porting right near the chamber to drop velocity sub-sonic is the primary reason to go with an integral design, since the can volume past the muzzle is more determinative of the decibel drop; the volume around the barrel helps, too, but it's mostly there so the bleed-off can occur, and isn't as useful for sub-sonic rounds like 45acp that don't need to bleed off gas to stay sub-sonic (well, unless you make the volume surrounding the barrel really, really big like the DeLisle, which had a lot of now-outdated design features working against it being as quiet as it was)
2ndchance,
Would the 45ACP version also be ported at the chamber?
TCB
I believe this goes back to the DeLisle if not Maxim designs. I also understand the porting right near the chamber to drop velocity sub-sonic is the primary reason to go with an integral design, since the can volume past the muzzle is more determinative of the decibel drop; the volume around the barrel helps, too, but it's mostly there so the bleed-off can occur, and isn't as useful for sub-sonic rounds like 45acp that don't need to bleed off gas to stay sub-sonic (well, unless you make the volume surrounding the barrel really, really big like the DeLisle, which had a lot of now-outdated design features working against it being as quiet as it was)
2ndchance,
Would the 45ACP version also be ported at the chamber?
TCB
We are building the first 45ACP version in a few weeks. We won't be porting the first barrel because it won't be needed. After velocity testing, we may port it and velocity test again. A 185gr 45ACP averages 1020 fps, so it's already subsonic so porting would really not be necessary. Our suppressor has a LOT of volume, so either way its going to be super quiet.
Man, I'm so excited!
We're releasing a several new promo videos and will have a chance to demo our carbine to Instructor Zero during the weekend before Shotshow.
https://youtu.be/qmPe7PHhUtk
We're releasing a several new promo videos and will have a chance to demo our carbine to Instructor Zero during the weekend before Shotshow.
https://youtu.be/qmPe7PHhUtk