maestro pistolero
New member
Time to start carrying a box around with receipts for everything in your possession , I guess.
Papers, please.
Papers, please.
Can I see your receipt?
- Thread starter Datguy781
- Start date
I was born in IL but have been living in Missouri for most of my life. Since I only live about 40 miles from the state line, IL law regarding firearms and their attitude about ccw was discussed in great detail during our ccw class. At the instructor's suggestion I opted to get a MO state ID with my ccw endorsement so that the average person who had a need to see my driver's license wouldn't be alerted to my ccw permit status. Apparently some IL LEOs had observed ccw status on driver's licenses during routine stops and had subjected the driver to some extensive searches of their auto's.
On another note, we have one county sheriff's dept in the area who have pulled the "where's your receipt" on ccw holders when they were stopped and in possession of a firearm. During my last purchase I was advised by the LGS owner to always carry a copy of my receipt when I was traveling through that county and carrying a weapon. I have since been advised by my attorney that in the event a LEO chose to confiscate my weapon pending a "proof of ownership receipt" that he would be more than happy to file a lawsuit and make both of us a lot of money.
On another note, we have one county sheriff's dept in the area who have pulled the "where's your receipt" on ccw holders when they were stopped and in possession of a firearm. During my last purchase I was advised by the LGS owner to always carry a copy of my receipt when I was traveling through that county and carrying a weapon. I have since been advised by my attorney that in the event a LEO chose to confiscate my weapon pending a "proof of ownership receipt" that he would be more than happy to file a lawsuit and make both of us a lot of money.
Ditto and zinc, I agree with you. All I was saying saying is that, from the officer's perspective, there's a sort of (informal) test going on. The LEOs may not even be able to articulate it as a test, which is what I was trying to get at in response to Glenn... that it is not a formal test does not mean there isn't a test in a different sense. People who assert their rights will fail it. I've failed it in the past, and I will continue to fail it in future encounters with LEOs. 
Asking for a reciept doesn't outwardly seem like it would be a violation of rights. A cop can ask what size undergarments you wear if he wishes, but that doesn't mean you have to tell him. Now, demanding you to produce a reciept, on the other hand, seems a bit more jack-booted to me. Last I knew, the burden of proof lies with the accuser and not the accused, so unless the cop can produce reasonable evidence that the gun (or any item for that matter) is stolen or unlawful, you and I are under no obligation to disprove him.
If I were ever asked for a reciept for any of my firearms by a cop, my reply would probably be along the lines of "Officer, I've owned this gun for quite some time now. If I still have the reciept, it's at home. Is there a problem?"
If I were ever asked for a reciept for any of my firearms by a cop, my reply would probably be along the lines of "Officer, I've owned this gun for quite some time now. If I still have the reciept, it's at home. Is there a problem?"
So then if the police come up with evidence that contradicts your statement, and the FFL lost the 4473, and you don't have it or the receipt either, now what? You've landed yourself in hot water because you didn't take the 5th.
James Duane's Don't Talk to the Police lecture - http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4097602514885833865
Admittedly such scenarios are not likely, but you're gambling with your freedom. The downside is a cross, frustrated cop, who you are likely to never see again. Why say anything at all other than silence, "Yes, sir" and "No, sir" when needed, and possibly ask if you're free to go or under arrest if the cop drags out the encounter?
Holy crap. If I carried my gun receipt everywhere I go, it would be falling apart by now. Not to mention, do they expect you to do an inventory of your personal possessions and carry with you the ones you need.
Let's see.
Shirt
Pants
Belt
Shoes
Socks.
Undies
T-shirt
IBW holster
Pistol
Silver chain
Watch
Wedding Ring
Hair tie
Contacts or glasses
Cell phone
Wallet
Cash (use ATM receipt to prove it's yours)
Pocket knife
Car Keys
Betcha anything I've forgotten something. Not to mention the myriad incidental crap in my car.
What if they decide to knock on the front door of your house and demand receipts for everything inside?
Totally asinine.
--Wag--
Let's see.
Shirt
Pants
Belt
Shoes
Socks.
Undies
T-shirt
IBW holster
Pistol
Silver chain
Watch
Wedding Ring
Hair tie
Contacts or glasses
Cell phone
Wallet
Cash (use ATM receipt to prove it's yours)
Pocket knife
Car Keys
Betcha anything I've forgotten something. Not to mention the myriad incidental crap in my car.
What if they decide to knock on the front door of your house and demand receipts for everything inside?
Totally asinine.
--Wag--
Zukiphile..
Nope... I never cared one way or another what a persons attitude was. Any and all interactions for business were just that. Having worked in NYC I think most attitudes were negative at the start of the interaction. Often positive when it was over. I learned the job from old timers who taught me... None of these people are your friends... some are you sworn enemy. Treat them all the same and it'll be easy to tell the difference.
I interact with people to do a job. Not to influence people and make friends when the job is over... our interaction is over. I always treated everyone with respect, and honesty. I know anything they feel has little or nothing to do with the person I am, but maybe with the weird hat I wear. And that comes off after my tour.
As I said before Police Officers have some discretion while performing their job. A persons general attitude and demeanor will usually have some effect there. I always allow for a person to react to be treated fairly, and honestly and maybe change gears and then effect my use of discretion.
A police Officer must maintain an open mind, and shelf any prejudices, and preconcieved notions while performing his duties. It's never personal.
I shall give two examples.
1) My partner and I answered a domestic. Payday night domestic. Alcohol involved domestic. Violence must arrest domestic signal 10-52. As it turns out the dusband was tipsy, and the wife intox... but he knotted her noggin and had to go. He was big, and mean, and nasty... but apologetic to us. As a pain in the a55 as he was... I offered to him that if he behaved I wouldnt cuff him in front of his children... but we could walk out like we were all friends going for beers. His attitude got him that bit of discretion.
2) Some years later working as a detective I caught a serious stabbing with the victim was likely to die. I went to the victims family for information, and someone to sign a complaint on his behalf. I found his younger sister. A woman with a terrible attitude. She made my entire investigation difficult with all those "street rules", and talking about her other brothers getting revenge, and how her family never got along with the perps family. The victim as it turns out didnt die, I made the arrest, and the sister eventually warmed up to me. 26 years later were still married and have three wonderful children.
So in sum and substance... Attitude is just that atitude... and is not all that important in the big picture. But an Officer must keep an open mind to see the big picture...
Glenn D.
Nope... I never cared one way or another what a persons attitude was. Any and all interactions for business were just that. Having worked in NYC I think most attitudes were negative at the start of the interaction. Often positive when it was over. I learned the job from old timers who taught me... None of these people are your friends... some are you sworn enemy. Treat them all the same and it'll be easy to tell the difference.
I interact with people to do a job. Not to influence people and make friends when the job is over... our interaction is over. I always treated everyone with respect, and honesty. I know anything they feel has little or nothing to do with the person I am, but maybe with the weird hat I wear. And that comes off after my tour.
As I said before Police Officers have some discretion while performing their job. A persons general attitude and demeanor will usually have some effect there. I always allow for a person to react to be treated fairly, and honestly and maybe change gears and then effect my use of discretion.
A police Officer must maintain an open mind, and shelf any prejudices, and preconcieved notions while performing his duties. It's never personal.
I shall give two examples.
1) My partner and I answered a domestic. Payday night domestic. Alcohol involved domestic. Violence must arrest domestic signal 10-52. As it turns out the dusband was tipsy, and the wife intox... but he knotted her noggin and had to go. He was big, and mean, and nasty... but apologetic to us. As a pain in the a55 as he was... I offered to him that if he behaved I wouldnt cuff him in front of his children... but we could walk out like we were all friends going for beers. His attitude got him that bit of discretion.
2) Some years later working as a detective I caught a serious stabbing with the victim was likely to die. I went to the victims family for information, and someone to sign a complaint on his behalf. I found his younger sister. A woman with a terrible attitude. She made my entire investigation difficult with all those "street rules", and talking about her other brothers getting revenge, and how her family never got along with the perps family. The victim as it turns out didnt die, I made the arrest, and the sister eventually warmed up to me. 26 years later were still married and have three wonderful children.
So in sum and substance... Attitude is just that atitude... and is not all that important in the big picture. But an Officer must keep an open mind to see the big picture...
Glenn D.
Up until a year ago I was helpful and answered questions from LEO truthfully and completely. NO MORE.
Now I will provide only that information which is required. DL, CCW, registration, proof of Insurance.
Do you have any weapons in your vehicle, yes.
May I search your vehicle. No
Do you know anything about this. I do not chose to interview with you at this time. I will have my attorney contact you and arrainge an interview if you deem it necessary.
Anything you say can be twisted to use against you.
Now I will provide only that information which is required. DL, CCW, registration, proof of Insurance.
Do you have any weapons in your vehicle, yes.
May I search your vehicle. No
Do you know anything about this. I do not chose to interview with you at this time. I will have my attorney contact you and arrainge an interview if you deem it necessary.
Anything you say can be twisted to use against you.
Now I'm gonna bust your *** for those three bags, and I'm gonna nail you for picking your feet in Poughkeepsie
I've often thought about receipts.
And then I think about my 03 bound book and the song and dance I've had to go through getting checked out when I buy from a shop, and I stop thinking about them.
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armoredman
New member
The few times I have been pulled over armed, I have never been asked to disarm, much less surrender a reciept! The only time I was disarmed I was asked what type of ammo I preferred by the officer, and that was when my debit card came back, (wrongfully, of course), as stolen.
I would probably look at the officer in shock if they asked me a question that odd. Yes, I have several, not all, and in one case the shop that sold me one is out of business, with the 4473 buried at ATF in Washington!
I would probably ask why he wanted to know.
I would probably look at the officer in shock if they asked me a question that odd. Yes, I have several, not all, and in one case the shop that sold me one is out of business, with the 4473 buried at ATF in Washington!
I would probably ask why he wanted to know.
Glenn Dee,
That's a great story (the mathematical odds of a successful marriage coming from such an encounter only indicate there is a God). But your description of your comportment matches my own experience on the receiving end of police attention. I've misbehaved in the past, often, but not seriously. With one or two glaring exceptions, the officers, from Tenafly, New Jersey, to Seattle, Washington, performed exactly as you described. One incident involved firearms and was rather tense, yet ended with us sent on our way.
"Treat them all the same and it'll be easy to tell the difference." That's exactly how I was treated, even when I was being cuffed and stuffed. The officers realized pretty quickly that I was a screw-up, a drunk, a true-believer, or some combination of the three, but wasn't a hostile.
That's a great story (the mathematical odds of a successful marriage coming from such an encounter only indicate there is a God
). But your description of your comportment matches my own experience on the receiving end of police attention. I've misbehaved in the past, often, but not seriously. With one or two glaring exceptions, the officers, from Tenafly, New Jersey, to Seattle, Washington, performed exactly as you described. One incident involved firearms and was rather tense, yet ended with us sent on our way."Treat them all the same and it'll be easy to tell the difference." That's exactly how I was treated, even when I was being cuffed and stuffed. The officers realized pretty quickly that I was a screw-up, a drunk, a true-believer, or some combination of the three, but wasn't a hostile.
Can I see a reciept for your gun?
only if you show me your Police Academy diploma first! You got it on you?
Probably shouldn't say it, but would sure be thinking it.
On the other hand, I haven't been stopped this century, and only once or twice in the 20 years before that.
They might be looking for a gun that matches yours, but its a very oddly phrased request, to my way of thinking.
I don't think any cop would ask that unless he had something specific in mind. Seeing how you react to an off the wall, foolish question might be all he has in mind.
I'd be polite, and possibly ask him if he realizes how foolish that question makes him sound. But then again, I don't live in your area.
only if you show me your Police Academy diploma first! You got it on you?
Probably shouldn't say it, but would sure be thinking it.
On the other hand, I haven't been stopped this century, and only once or twice in the 20 years before that.
They might be looking for a gun that matches yours, but its a very oddly phrased request, to my way of thinking.
I don't think any cop would ask that unless he had something specific in mind. Seeing how you react to an off the wall, foolish question might be all he has in mind.
I'd be polite, and possibly ask him if he realizes how foolish that question makes him sound. But then again, I don't live in your area.
Kreyzhorse
New member
No, no, no and no.