Hi guys can anyone here recommend a good load for the .38 speacial?it would be for my s&w model 36 snub nose.So what is the best round right now for the .38?Ive heard about the 125gr. nyclad i think its called but ive also heard that it lacks penatration does it?Also ive heard of the 158gr.+p lead hollow point(lhp)or semi ward cutter this load seems the most appealing but are there any draw backs to it?I mean hows the recoil of this load out of a snub nosed gun?is it controlable?ive heard people say it has alot of recoil is this true?Please enlighten me guys as youve helped me so much in the past with stuff.thanks .45automan
can anyone tell me a good defense load for the .38 speacial?
- Thread starter 45automan
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Mike Irwin
Staff
I use 125-gr. +P Nyclads in my .38 Spl., and S&W Airweight.
Recoil is there, but not terrible.
The Winchester 158-gr. LSWCHP +P is considered one of the best loads for .38 Spl., but quite frankly out of a J-frame recoil is absolutly vicious.
Recoil is there, but not terrible.
The Winchester 158-gr. LSWCHP +P is considered one of the best loads for .38 Spl., but quite frankly out of a J-frame recoil is absolutly vicious.
thanks so far guys but as far as recoil goes for the 158gr. lswchp out of a j frame how bad is it?I mean what is it comparable to for example i shoot 115gr.+p corbons out of my my glock26 i also shoot my sig 220 alot is the recoil from the j frame with the 158gr. loads worse then either of the other two guns ive mentioned?
oops forgot to put this in my reply.as far as +p ammo goes from what i can gather my smith &wesson model 36 may be rated for them depening on when it was made but fwiw i do beleave its a prety recent gun.Also a good friend of mine who is very knowledgeable about snub nose revolvers says that even if my gun isnt rated for +p ammo a few round here and there to get the feel of the recoil wount bother the gun what do you guys think of this?
cuerno de chivo
Moderator
148gr wadcutter. jacketed if you can find it. standard pressure.
Chalk up another vote for the 158+P LSWC-HP. Winchester seems to have the best rep but I doubt the others are far off.
In a steel-frame snubbie such as yours, recoil will be quite tolerable. If it was an aluminum-frame, well, that's a different story.
I tend to run a pair of Glaser "Silver Label" .38+P "first at bat", and then three of that Winchester 158+P load, plus two speedloaders full of 158s.
The Nyclads in 125+P would be my second choice if I couldn't score a good 158+P lead hollowpoint.
Avoid the Federal Personal Defense 110 Hydrashock. It's got a good marketing pitch, but when you've got a 110 that's going about as fast as the 158s and the jacket means it won't expand as fast, AVOID.
Jim
In a steel-frame snubbie such as yours, recoil will be quite tolerable. If it was an aluminum-frame, well, that's a different story.
I tend to run a pair of Glaser "Silver Label" .38+P "first at bat", and then three of that Winchester 158+P load, plus two speedloaders full of 158s.
The Nyclads in 125+P would be my second choice if I couldn't score a good 158+P lead hollowpoint.
Avoid the Federal Personal Defense 110 Hydrashock. It's got a good marketing pitch, but when you've got a 110 that's going about as fast as the 158s and the jacket means it won't expand as fast, AVOID.
Jim
P
PreserveFreedom
Guest
I have always prefered Federal Hydro-Shok in just about any caliber.
My quibble with the Hydrashock has nothing to do with the projectile per se...
The problem is getting any jacketed hollowpoint moving fast enough from a *snubbie* to expand reliably. From a 4" tube, I'm sure there's Hydrashocks that work just fine...probably all of 'em do.
But the Hydras aren't magic. The jacket slows expansion. And if it's only doing 800fps or *less* in a snubbie barrel, I question whether or not it'll expand. (The 110 Personal Defense Hydras actually clocked below 800fps from a Smith snubbie. That's about the speed the 158+Ps pull, but with higher sectional density and more energy.)
The 158+P LSWC-HPs don't have jackets, they're plain 'ol lead, the most primitive hollowpoints still in common production. They're friggin' dinosaurs compared to something like the Hydrashock projectile...BUT despite being archaic, the old 158+P "Treasure Police Load" as they used to call it expands properly at snubbie velocities.
I wouldn't trust that sort of ultra-retro projectile in anything else BUT a .38Snub...but in that one platform, they're the proven choice. If you want something that's proven itself over 40+ years, look no further.
That said, I'd love to see the Federal E-FMJ 124grain 9mm projectile loaded in .38+P to at least 900fps in a snubbie. That might finally unseat the old 158s because the E-FMJs expand reliably and are "clog-proof" no matter what sort of winter clothes some goblin might be swathed in.
But so far, those aren't available in wheelgun calibers.
Jim
The problem is getting any jacketed hollowpoint moving fast enough from a *snubbie* to expand reliably. From a 4" tube, I'm sure there's Hydrashocks that work just fine...probably all of 'em do.
But the Hydras aren't magic. The jacket slows expansion. And if it's only doing 800fps or *less* in a snubbie barrel, I question whether or not it'll expand. (The 110 Personal Defense Hydras actually clocked below 800fps from a Smith snubbie. That's about the speed the 158+Ps pull, but with higher sectional density and more energy.)
The 158+P LSWC-HPs don't have jackets, they're plain 'ol lead, the most primitive hollowpoints still in common production. They're friggin' dinosaurs compared to something like the Hydrashock projectile...BUT despite being archaic, the old 158+P "Treasure Police Load" as they used to call it expands properly at snubbie velocities.
I wouldn't trust that sort of ultra-retro projectile in anything else BUT a .38Snub...but in that one platform, they're the proven choice. If you want something that's proven itself over 40+ years, look no further.
That said, I'd love to see the Federal E-FMJ 124grain 9mm projectile loaded in .38+P to at least 900fps in a snubbie. That might finally unseat the old 158s because the E-FMJs expand reliably and are "clog-proof" no matter what sort of winter clothes some goblin might be swathed in.
But so far, those aren't available in wheelgun calibers.
Jim
Al Thompson
Staff Alumnus
I regularly carry the 158 LSWCHP +P. Ayoob pointed out that it is the top pick of both the Fackler and Marshall/Sanow schools of thought. I try to fire a cylinderfull every couple of months for familarization. I also like the fact that standard 158s hit close to the same POI as the social loads. My carry gun is a M38 S&W, so the recoil is brisk.
Giz
Giz
I carry either Federal 125 gr +P HP Nyclads, or (usually) Federal 158 gr +P SWCHP Nyclads in my S&W 642. Recoil isn't pleasant, but I don't find it too bad, tho I have pretty good size hands. Hold on tight with your hand high on the frame and it's ok.
M1911 - I think Kiesler's had the Nyclads for <$10 per 50 in the latest Shotgun News. Cheaper than Dirt has both regular and +P Nyclads in both 125 and 158 gr, tho the prices are not as cheap.
M1911 - I think Kiesler's had the Nyclads for <$10 per 50 in the latest Shotgun News. Cheaper than Dirt has both regular and +P Nyclads in both 125 and 158 gr, tho the prices are not as cheap.
I found a box of non plus P 125 grain nyclads last night at a local shop ( $23.99 
)
Trying to find a decent non +P load for my 642...M1911, I agree, out of my K frame, FBI load is a pussycat, 642 is another story.......
I read a snub review many years ago (can't remember mag, or gun being reviewed) but the writer, concerning ammo selection, said "use wadcutters and clear the nasal passages, get it?"
Any thoughts on how effective a standard pressure 148 grain wadcutter would be from a snub?
Mike M.
)Trying to find a decent non +P load for my 642...M1911, I agree, out of my K frame, FBI load is a pussycat, 642 is another story.......
I read a snub review many years ago (can't remember mag, or gun being reviewed) but the writer, concerning ammo selection, said "use wadcutters and clear the nasal passages, get it?"
Any thoughts on how effective a standard pressure 148 grain wadcutter would be from a snub?
Mike M.
Regarding target wadcutter 148s in a snubbie: figure they'll do about 700fps. Total energy will be around 160ft/lbs.
In comparison, the 158+Ps should pull at least 200ft/lbs if doing a hair over 750fps, and will expand. And more like 800fps+ (230ish ft/lbs) isn't at all unlikely depending on your gun, cylinder gap, etc.
As someone else said, the 148 target wadcutters WILL penetrate skull, there's enough energy there to make it all the way through the sinus cavities if need be (which is suprisingly difficult and a reason why a lot of people survive mousegun headshots).
If you're recoil sensitive and can shoot the wadcutters VERY accurately, well, you're not unarmed with them. But for God's sake realize their limits: on a torso shot, they'll hurt but stopping power will be very minimal, the low velocity means only minor "shockwave effects" from that blunt nose.
As to the Nyclad version of the 158+P LSWC-HP, I'm not sure that would help, or hurt. They might go a bit faster, but the nylon coating might reduce the hollowpoint cavity volume in unacceptable ways. I figure the "plain lead" varieties such as the Winchester are the "time tested standard" and have thus far stayed with those. If you're pondering the Nyclads, compare the HP cavity in it to the plain lead equivelent, and make your choice.
Jim
In comparison, the 158+Ps should pull at least 200ft/lbs if doing a hair over 750fps, and will expand. And more like 800fps+ (230ish ft/lbs) isn't at all unlikely depending on your gun, cylinder gap, etc.
As someone else said, the 148 target wadcutters WILL penetrate skull, there's enough energy there to make it all the way through the sinus cavities if need be (which is suprisingly difficult and a reason why a lot of people survive mousegun headshots).
If you're recoil sensitive and can shoot the wadcutters VERY accurately, well, you're not unarmed with them. But for God's sake realize their limits: on a torso shot, they'll hurt but stopping power will be very minimal, the low velocity means only minor "shockwave effects" from that blunt nose.
As to the Nyclad version of the 158+P LSWC-HP, I'm not sure that would help, or hurt. They might go a bit faster, but the nylon coating might reduce the hollowpoint cavity volume in unacceptable ways. I figure the "plain lead" varieties such as the Winchester are the "time tested standard" and have thus far stayed with those. If you're pondering the Nyclads, compare the HP cavity in it to the plain lead equivelent, and make your choice.
Jim
Al Thompson
Staff Alumnus
I have seen the 148 FMJ WC's recommended for carry. IIRC, Federal loaded these for a while, but frankly, they are harder to find than the 158LSWCHPs. If I couldn't find the SWCHPs, I'd go with a plain 158 SWC. First get penetration, then worry about expansion.
SWIW, last time I chrono'd the Federal Nyclad 125 +Ps, we saw 925 FPS in a snub. Not a bad round and the lack of a jacket helps. Not too sure on the penetration though.
Giz
SWIW, last time I chrono'd the Federal Nyclad 125 +Ps, we saw 925 FPS in a snub. Not a bad round and the lack of a jacket helps. Not too sure on the penetration though.
Giz
wow!you guys are the best anywhere.All this information its great but ive got one last thing to touch on regarding the +p 158gr.loads.Some of you said that it depends on the gun your shooting them from well fwiw my gun is a s&w model 36 i also have a maodel 66 to (stainless steel 36)they have a steel frame so how would the recoil be out of these guns with the +p 158gr.loads?Ido realize that recoil is purely subjective but what would you guys compare this bullet being shot from a 2in. snubbie to?Would you say it feels like a glock 27 for example?just tryin to get and idea is all about the recoil of them but i shoot 115gr and 124gr.+p 9mm from a glock 26 if that helps.thanks again guys for the help so far youve helped me out alot its a given almost that iam gonna use the 158gr.+p loads.