Can anyone interpret this sign???

I've seen that sign....... at a eatery in.... the Cleveland airport!!
That's right! In the no-gun zone, beyond security!

The stupidity is astounding...
 
MoArk Willy said:
Besides, it is the responsibility of the person carrying to know and understand the laws, not that of the establishments they frequent.
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That may (or may not) be the case in Ohio, but some states make it the responsibility of establishments that serve alcohol to post signs. Some of those states dictate in statute or regulation exactly what the signs must say.
 
Wow, this sure generated a comment or two :)

To clarify two points raised above: I'm neither illiterate nor defiant. But thanks for the kind words.

As others have pointed out, it appears this sign really conveys no useful information at all. Reading the actual laws, anyone with a valid CCW is NOT committing a crime if they aren't drinking, and IS committing a crime if they are. I don't believe it has to be in a liquor establishment, as it's against the law to consume any alcohol, in any venue, while carrying a firearm.

So to me the question then becomes "why did they post it at all?" and my theories would include:

1. They're required by law to post it -- possible because this was not just a made-up sign, but one that had the state seal and the names of the Gov and Lt Gov on it -- I've not seen it anywhere else, so maybe it varies by county or city?

2. The owner meant to post a "no guns" sign and thinks this sign conveys the "no guns allowed" message when in fact, it does not

3. It's posted to scare people into not carrying, even if they have a legal right to, but stops short of actually posting a "no guns" sign -- I'd say this is very unlikely because I can't imagine why someone would be passive aggressive and not just post the familiar sign (which I'd argue comes in three flavors: No Revolvers, No Berettas, or No Glocks).

Thanks for the discussion! I'll now go back to defying laws I can't read anyway :)
 
It's posted to scare people into not carrying, even if they have a legal right to, but stops short of actually posting a "no guns" sign -- I'd say this is very unlikely...
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Actually, I think this is the most likely reason. To make people THINK they can't carry at all, when the law allows for legal carry providing you meet the requirements.

If they just put up a "no guns" sign, (and its NOT the official policy of the establishment's owners) then its a lie. Posting that you MAY be guilty of breaking the law, if...., allows wiggle room that prevents action for posting an "illegal" sign. Plus it meets any requirements for posting something informing patrons on the subject. So, its a lawyer proof (hopefully) warning that there is a law and you MAY violate it by carrying "here", without telling you that you cannot carry here at all, or what the law actually allows.
 
3. It's posted to scare people into not carrying, even if they have a legal right to, but stops short of actually posting a "no guns" sign -- I'd say this is very unlikely because I can't imagine why someone would be passive aggressive and not just post the familiar sign (which I'd argue comes in three flavors: No Revolvers, No Berettas, or No Glocks).
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I agree with 44_AMP -- I think this is the most probable explanation.
 
I guess I'm still trying to get my head around why someone would not just put up the official "no guns allowed" sign rather than just taking spineless half-measures?

But if that's why, then that's why. Either way it's not a bar I would intend to visit. I just happened to be near it.

:confused::confused::confused:
 
OhioGuy said:
I guess I'm still trying to get my head around why someone would not just put up the official "no guns allowed" sign rather than just taking spineless half-measures?
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Maybe their intent is merely to comply with existing law, but not to exclude everyone with a gun.
 
OhioGuy said:
I guess I'm still trying to get my head around why someone would not just put up the official "no guns allowed" sign rather than just taking spineless half-measures?
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Is there an "official" no guns allowed sign (or statutory language) in Ohio? I know Texas has their 30.06 signs, but I've reviewed the Ohio law and on a quick scan I found no reference to an official sign, or to specific language to be used (other than the "D license" language replicated in the sign under discussion, but that part of the law spells out the requirement, it doesn't dictate the language to be used on a sign).

Did I miss something?

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.126
 
Nah, you're right, I misspoke. I dug in a little and it seems any clearly stated sign prohibiting firearms inside an establishment counts as "official" in the sense that it must be obeyed. Usually they're ready-made graphics, I think. I did once see a printed sheet of plain text that said "no guns allowed here."

Maybe bars in that county or city are required to post the sign that I saw, and they are just complying. I'll have to find a lawyer in Ohio to ask, I guess.
 
According to the Ohio AG's web site:

The law does not say precisely what language must be on a sign prohibiting firearms. At a minimum, signs must be conspicuous and inform people that firearms and/or concealed handguns are prohibited. However, the law suggests that the prohibited locations post a sign that substantially says the following:

Unless otherwise authorized by law, pursuant to the Ohio Revised Code, no person shall knowingly possess, have under his control, convey, or attempt to convey a deadly handgun or dangerous ordnance onto these premises.
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emphasis added

So, according to the AG, "At a minimum, signs must be conspicuous and inform people that firearms and/or concealed handguns are prohibited." Does the sign under discussion "inform people that firearms are prohibited"? Answer: No, it does not. It does not come out and say "No Guns Allowed." It repeats some words from the statute, and then says you "may" [and, therefore, may not] be guilty of a felony if you carry a handgun on the premises.

I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think that sign meets the legal standard.

https://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov...ations/Concealed-Carry-Laws-Manual-(PDF).aspx
Page 14
 
2. The owner meant to post a "no guns" sign and thinks this sign conveys the "no guns allowed" message when in fact, it does not

3. It's posted to scare people into not carrying, even if they have a legal right to, but stops short of actually posting a "no guns" sign -- I'd say this is very unlikely because I can't imagine why someone would be passive aggressive and not just post the familiar sign
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I think #2 is quite possible. There are plenty of people who aren't that smart. There are also plenty of people who are quite smart but get confused by legalese (just look at some of the responses on this thread). It is quite possible the restaurant owner or management thought they were banning guns with that sign.

I agree with those who say #3 is most likely. As for why they would be wishy washy like this and not outright ban guns, it is business. They seem to be trying to make it sound like the law bans guns. By doing so, many (maybe most) CCW holders won't come in with their guns. They'll accomplish their goal of making sure many/most of their patrons don't have guns in their establishment. However, they will (so they hope) escape the anger of gun owners and possible boycott of their establishment that an outright ban would engender.
 
I was going to suggest that #2 is unlikely because the owner would probably have discussed it with an attorney before proceeding. Then I remembered that, just as the late Ann Landers once said about doctors, we must remember that 50 percent of lawyers graduated in the bottom half of their class in law school.

Case in point: Several years ago I was involved in contesting an anti-gun local ordinance in my town of residence. At a public meeting of the governing board, the town's attorney stated that state law does not allow the use of deadly force for self defense. In fact, that statement is absolutely incorrect ... but he believed it, so that's what he advised the governing body. It took a bit of work to overcome that particular bit of biased idiocy.
 
My company has a terminal in Trenton, and every gas station and grocery store in the area has that sign posted. I asked the manager at one United Dairy Farmers place about this about a year back. Apparently, "some folks" went around handing out the signs and urging businesses to post them.

They're not official signage, and they're warning against something you can't do anyway, which is consuming alcohol on a premises that sells it in packaged form.
 
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