Can an off duty police officer ...........

W

westphoenix

New member
Can an off duty police officer ask you if you have a concealed weapon on you?
Can he try to search you or force you to wait for an on duty officer?
Many stores in my area hire off duty police officers, in official police uniform, to work security.
This is good thinking for a company as the off duty police officer can carry a gun, is trained and would be a much better person in a court room if something was to go wrong.
Plus people are more likely to respect a police officer than a security guard.
In my state (Arizona) is it illegal to conceal a weapon without a permit, unless you're on your own property.
Lets say you go into a store with a concealed pistol, you have a concealed weapons permit; the officer at the door notices a bulge and asks you if you have a weapon.
Do you have to cooperate with an off duty police officer?
Lets assume there is not firearms prohibited sign.
Lets also assume you have done absolutely nothing wrong, just walking in or out of the store.
Would this situation be any different (legally) if you did not have a concealed weapons permit?

EDIT:
When replying please specify whether of not you are a police officer.
 
Last edited:
he's "off duty" from the police force, but "on duty" to do his job wherever he is hired at that point in time, as a police officer. i would say he can do whatever would be normal procedure. just a guess, i may be wrong, but that's my take.
 
First off, if the place you are patronizing is not posted, then they have no right to ask you if you are packing absent probable cause. If they do so, they risk a major lawsuit.

Secondly, off-duty cops have the very same authority as on-duty cops.

-Cheers
 
Police officers are never really "off duty".

That's why almost all agencies REQUIRE that they be armed at all times, and can discipline them up to actually firing them, if they are found to be unarmed.

An off-duty officer has the same legal powers and responsibilities as when on-duty.
 
Dfariswheel said:
An off-duty officer has the same legal powers and responsibilities as when on-duty.
Click to expand...
and citizens have to abide by their orders even while the officer is off the clock?
Lets say an off-duty policer officer witnessed a crime and was involved in a foot chase with the suspect.
The suspect shoots and kills the police officer. Is he considered killed in the line of duty?
Would the officers family receive the death benefits and/or any other benefits that they would normally receive if the officer was killed while on-duty?

pt92 said:
off-duty cops have the very same authority as on-duty cops.
Click to expand...
If an off-duty cop makes a mistake and accidentally shoots someone, can the person (or family of) who was shot take legal action against the city?
I understand the police officer will be held accountable for his actions on or off the clock.
But can the city be held responsible for an off-duty officers actions?

I am not one to resist a police officer.
I am just curious about the rights of citizens when confronted or investigated by off-duty police officers.
 
pt92 said:
if the place you are patronizing is not posted, then they have no right to ask you if you are packing absent probable cause. If they do so, they risk a major lawsuit.
Click to expand...
probable cause:
Reasonable grounds for belief that an accused person may be subject to arrest or the issuance of a warrant.
- (law) evidence sufficient to warrant an arrest or search and seizure

Even if the officer believes you have a firearm they have no reason to believe you do not have a concealed weapons permit.
In which they would have no legal reason to ask if you are concealing a weapon?
 
What an off duty police officer can do

I am not a police officer and never have been.
It is my understanding that a police officer is "on duty" 24 hours a day, even though he or she may not be pulling their shift.
*They must identify themselves as a police officer.
*In Virginia, it may be the same all over, a police oficer must arrest you before he can search you.
So far as asking you if you have a CCW permit, I can not answer than.
 
I am a peace officer. An off-duty officer has the same authority as an on duty officer, assuming that he or she is still within the agency's geographic or subject matter jurisdiction. If he or she establishes probable cause they can most certainly stop and interview you and conduct a pat-down as per Terry. The fact that a state may have a CCW provision does not mandate the assumption that a bulge is "legal." It is something that a proactive officer would most likely want to check, and PC will be easy to articulate.

Your question about the burden of liability is too complex to address here. Typically plaintiffs try to attach agencies to litigation over off-duty conduct, while agencies typically disavow any responsibility. Of course there are always exceptions.
 
"Even if the officer believes you have a firearm they have no reason to believe you do not have a concealed weapons permit."

This logic is unusual. I have no idea who does or does not have a permit. However, if my senses, training and experience lead me to believe that a person is armed, that is probable cause to make the stop and determine whether or not they are in fact armed and whether they are legal or not. It is no different than a driver's license. If you give me reason to stop you whilst you are driving I may demand a license, as possession of same is a requisite for operating a motor vehicle.
 
West,

I Arizona, a POST certified Peace Officer can affect an arrest at any time. That includes a request to see your AZ CCW. All he has to do is identify himself as an LEO.

I'm sure you have seen policemen acting as security guards at businesses around town??
They are off duty!!!
 
sendec said:
It is no different than a driver's license. If you give me reason to stop you whilst you are driving I may demand a license, as possession of same is a requisite for operating a motor vehicle.
Click to expand...
Right, but can you stop someone who is driving a car just to see if they have a drivers license?
You stop them for something else, then check for their license, right?
I believe AZ law allows an officer to check you for a concealed weapon even if he doesn't know for sure you are carrying a concealed weapon. Can an Arizona police officer confirm this?
Lets assume you did nothing wrong, just walking down the street.

denfoote said:
I'm sure you have seen policemen acting as security guards at businesses around town??
They are off duty!!!
Click to expand...
You confused me :confused:. If you are asking me if I have seen off-duty police officers working security, then the answer is yes. This is why I am asking the questions. I am trying to determine what authority these off-duty police officers have. I live near the Cricket Pavilion. There are many stores around here who have off-duty police officers working security.

SamD said:
If he "sees a bulge" you failed the CCW test didn't you?
Click to expand...
You got me there ;).
 
Right, but can you stop someone who is driving a car just to see if they have a drivers license?
You stop them for something else, then check for their license, right?
Click to expand...
Well, we had a checkpoint some time ago here by my school, apparently some people had been caught driving across the campus without licenses. So they were stopping cars and checking for licenses (mid-day).
 
As a former LEO, I agree totally with my friend Dfariswheel; as being
a LEO is just like being a U.S. Navy Seal; as you really NEVER break ranks. :D
Once a LEO, always a LEO whether or not "On" or "Off" duty, retired or "in
service".

However, I would hope to think that most "Off Duty" LEO's past or present
don't go around abusing their authority. :D

Best Wishes,
 
A Pima County deputy was involved in a gun battle at Old Tucson Studios a few decades ago. He was working off duty as a security guard. He was in the PCSO tan uniform. The decision then was that he was a employee of OTS and had the same police powers as any citizen. He was not acting as a PCSO deputy and was not entitled to the protection of governmental immunity. When any off duty officer hires out as a security officer, they are just that. They may act as a LEO when needed in case of a felony being acted out in full view. It would be open to review as to a line of duty death resulting from working off duty. If a LEO were run down while crossing the street on a security patrol, he cannot claim coverage under LOD for workmans compensation from his agency, it would be under the security company/off duty employer. If he were killed, no governmental LOD benefits or insurance apply except for agency survivors benefits and reimbursement of pension contributions. Is the business posted? No post, no authority. You would be able to sue the security agency/off duty employer. Criminal charges could be brought for false action under the colour of authority. I have not heard of this being done except in one case. A PCSO detective was off duty at Cottonwood. He was intoxicated with alcohol. He challenged a thief in a act of theft. The deputy was intoxicated and somewhat confused/disoriented. He shot and killed the thief. Manslaughter charges were brought. PCSO denied any protection as the deputy was outside of his jurisdiction and in clear violation of PCSO shooting policy and code of conduct. The deputy had no authority to act while intoxicated and should not have been armed while intoxicated. IOW, a off duty LEO is a citizen unless a felony is acted out in their full view, they then have a duty to act. Any business would need to be posted. The generic response is escort to a vehicle, lock and leave, go shop.
 
Off duty LEO-Texas

If he or she is a real LEO, just say yassir and no maam and do what they say if it is a legal request. They are legally allowed the same duties and priveliges as if in uniform in a patrol car. They are also required to obey the laws that ordinary citizens must regarding their personal behavior.

There are more good Cops than bad ones and there are a few BGs running around with a badge looking for somebody to rape or rob. The phonies are usually easily identified at first glance, except the Drug Enforcement and if you behave and stay away from that scene.
 
"Even if the officer believes you have a firearm they have no reason to believe you do not have a concealed weapons permit."

This logic is unusual. I have no idea who does or does not have a permit. However, if my senses, training and experience lead me to believe that a person is armed, that is probable cause to make the stop and determine whether or not they are in fact armed and whether they are legal or not. It is no different than a driver's license. If you give me reason to stop you whilst you are driving I may demand a license, as possession of same is a requisite for operating a motor vehicle.
Click to expand...

I don't know why you think that logic is "unusual." It's the same logic that applies when you, as a peace officer, see someone drive down the frickin' street.

Do you pull over random people who are driving, just because you don't proactively know that they do have a driver's license?

By your logic, everyone on the street is subject to a stop and search because you don't know that they all have licenses.

So substitute guns. First of all, we're talking about a cop seeing a BULGE, NOT a GUN. And from there you are saying that upon seeing a bulge which he THINKS may be a gun, he should "proactively" check it out, and make sure a) that it's a gun and b) that the owner is licensed to carry. (Let's forget about whether there is actual malum in se going on here, and not just innocent carry of a defensive pistol but absent a license.)

Just like the driver, you don't have CAUSE to think specifically that this person doesn't have a license. You simply don't know, and not knowing is not cause for arrest.

I remember that on the NYPD exam, there was a question about whether an officer should stop a man who was running down the street holding a pink purse. The answer was NO. How do I know that? Well, I got only one question wrong on the exam, and that one wasn't it. The point of the question is that just because something appears unusual, that doesn't mean it's criminal. The guy might have run off with the purse after a snatching, but he could just be running after his wife, who left for work and forgot it. Do you advocate cops stopping everyone for such things?


P.S. Are you "centac" from THR?


-blackmind
 
I guess like most things this may vary state-to-state depended upon the laws. In my turf, an off-duty officer, within his jurisdiction has full arrest powers. It doesn't matter if it's an off-duty job or he's at the local store shopping. Once he has identified himself and is exercising police powers to stop/detain/arrest someone all criminal aspects come into play (such as fleeing, resisting arrest etc). Outside his jurisdiction he can make arrests only for felonies that occur in his presence or if the person being arrested has a warrant.
And finally an officer does not need probable cause to search a person or detain them if they reasonably suspect a crime is being committed. For those in doubt read Terry V. Ohio which is a landmark decision handed down by SCOTUS about 35-40 years ago.
 
A Pima County deputy was involved in a gun battle at Old Tucson Studios a few decades ago. He was working off duty as a security guard. He was in the PCSO tan uniform. The decision then was that he was a employee of OTS and had the same police powers as any citizen. He was not acting as a PCSO deputy and was not entitled to the protection of governmental immunity.
Click to expand...

Well, I agree that he was not acting as a PCSO deputy, as you describe the case, but I offer that if he is not entitled to be doing so, neither is he entitled to be working in his PCSO UNIFORM. That uniform CLEARLY is intended to identify him as a law enforcement officer, working for/with a specific law enforcement agency. There is no other reason for him to be wearing that uniform other than to make people think "cop": and all the police powers that come with the appelation.

So if the PCSO ALLOWS its officers to work other jobs while wearing that uniform, then it is ALLOWING them to project the authority of the PCSO while at their security jobs. As such, I believe that PCSO should most certainly be held liable for their actions at those jobs, just as they would be responsible for the officers' actions while on actual duty.


-blackmind
 
So are these correct statements:
An off-duty LEO can legally ask you if you are concealing a weapon.
An off-duty LEO can legally ask you for your conealed weapons permit.
An off-duty LEO can legally pat you down without your permission to check for weapons.
the off-duty LEO can then take the appropriate action based on his findings.

I do not believe carrying a concealed weapon is a felony in Arizona.
Does/would this change anything?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top