Can all 357 bullets be used for 38 spl loads?

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BondoBob

New member
Supply is thin in my area. This is all I could find for my 1st 38spl load. It's labeled 357 but no mention of 38spl. I believe a 125gr 357 is fine for 38spl too. The only thing I could imagine would be different is the location of the cannelure possibly affecting pressure. Just double checking are they always good for both callilbers?

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Few (if any) current bullet manufacturers make different bullets for each cartridge. You are perfectly safe using those bullets in a decent .38 Special.


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The COL of 38 Special is 0.040" shorter than the 357 Mag, but the 38 Special case is 0.135" shorter. This means the bullet seated to the cannelure will have a COL 0.095" shorter from maximum COL than the 357 has. This is why you find some bullets with two cannelures, the higher being for 357 and the lower for 38 Special. The same thing happens with some 0.429 bullets meant for both 44 Magnum and 44 Special.

If the bullet has only one cannelure and says it is for 357 Magnum, there is a chance it isn't designed to expand at 38 Special velocities. However, it can still be loaded in 38 Special. You just want to use data for a bullet seated 1.460" or shorter to allow for that seating depth difference. As it happens, the Hornady XTP has only one crimp cannelure and is seated that short in 38 Special, so all the data Hodgdon has is for that shorter length and similar construction, so you should be able to use Hodgdon's 38 Special 125-grain load data.
 
Thanks all. These are just for plinking, so I guess it's ok.

Not yet Rifletom. This is my first batch coming up. I'm using this 125gr SJHP with 4.25 grains of Trailboss. The listed COL is 1.45 and it should be a mild one about 1200PSI. I got that on the Hodgdon website. It's right in the middle of the range. Hopefully it'll make it through the 4" barrel on my 686.
 
Not only will those work for .38 special, they will work well. Those are one of my preferred projectiles for SD .38 special ammo.
 
Any bullet listed as .357" or .358" can be used in the .38 Special case. There may be certain ones that won't fit in your gun (like long 180gr+) but they can be used with the .38 Special case, and there are .38 Special loads for them.

You might not get full expansion from .357 mag bullets at .38 Special speeds, but that's about all the difference.

Yes, the COL of the .38 Special is 0.040" less than the .357, but the .357 case is 0.135" longer than the .38 case.

Factory bullets in .357/38 cal, designed for use in revolvers, will have the cannelure in the right place to safely load either caliber cases with standard published data.

The bullets in the picture will work fine in either case. Use .38 loads in .38 cases and .357 loads in .357 cases and all will be well. Remington and others have been doing this for a long time. You don't need to worry or re-invent the wheel. People smarter than both of us have already done that and sell it to us conveniently packaged and ready to use. :D
 
BondoBob said:
Not yet Rifletom. This is my first batch coming up. I'm using this 125gr SJHP with 4.25 grains of Trailboss. The listed COL is 1.45 and it should be a mild one about 1200PSI. I got that on the Hodgdon website. It's right in the middle of the range. Hopefully it'll make it through the 4" barrel on my 686.
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I'm sure that load will be fine but, for future reference, I'd like to point out that you did NOT get that load from the Hodgdon web site.

Also, you dropped a zero. The pressure range on the Hodgdon site is 11,600 psi to 13,400 psi.

I went to the Hodgdon web site. I input .38 Special, 125-grain bullet, and Trailboss powder. Hodgdon gave me ONE load, and it's for a 125-grain, cast lead, round nose, flat point projectile. That's not what you have.

The load range goes from 3.0 grains to 5.3 grains, so I don't think that 4.5 grains will be a problem. When you progress to other cartridges and/or other loads, though, please keep in mind that a load recipe is only valid for ALL the components listed in the recipe. Once you change something -- anything -- you need to stop and assess what the effect of your departure from the recipe components is going to be.

Your pressure is probably going to be closer to 12,700 than 12,000.
 
Those Remington Scallop Jacketed Hollow Points have been factory loaded since at least the 80's in both 38 & 357 that I can recall; maybe before then but that's when I first came into aquaintance with the bullet.
 
Those Remington Scallop Jacketed Hollow Points have been factory loaded since at least the 80's in both 38 & 357 that I can recall; maybe before then but that's when I first came into aquaintance with the bullet.
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Yeah, me too. First crossed paths with them as factory ammo in 1983. Loaded as 357 Magnum (they were also loaded for 38+P), they were hot!

These are nice bullets! IMO, you have something of a rare find there.

Maybe not the latest high-tech, but they were state of the art in the '80's and have excellent terminal performance. Dare I say that anything newer is more gimmick than actual improved performance over these.

And yes, you can load them as 38's. But I'd recommend loading for 357.

As already asked, what's your plan with these as far as powder, etc?
 
Aguila, I did get that from the hodgdon site. Her'es what I was looking at. How much does LRN vs SJHP change things? I think we came up with the same range for the powder 3.0 to 5.3. And yes, I did a typo on the 12,000psi. How did you calculate 12,700? I may drop it to 4.0. Would the Lyman 50th manual have data that specific regarding the bullet types? My Lee manual only shows weight and diameter.

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Not Aguila here, but I can help with your question. Look at the gray bar just below "Case: Winchester", etc. You'll see the load is for a "125 gr. cast LRNFP" (lead round nose flat point). You need to find a published load for a jacketed bullet like you have. In general the load will actually be a little higher for jacketed vs lead with the same weight bullet even though that may seem counter intuitive.
 
BondoBob said:
Aguila, I did get that from the hodgdon site. Her'es what I was looking at. How much does LRN vs SJHP change things? I think we came up with the same range for the powder 3.0 to 5.3.
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Yes, that's exactly what I found on the Hodgdon site, and that's why I commented that you didn't get your load from the Hodgdon site. You are using a jacketed hollow point bullet, and that data is for a lead, flat nose bullet. As I commented, for this load I don't think there's any problem, but for future reference you need to be aware that any time you change ANY part of the recipe, you are responsible for understanding how that's going to affect the resulting pressure and velocity -- and, thereby, the resulting safety.

Since Hodgdon doesn't list your bullet, you didn't get your load from their site, I know, I'm arguing semantics, but going forward this is an important concept. You are using data for a different bullet that you found on the Hodgdon web site. That's what you found. You didn't find your load.

BondoBob said:
And yes, I did a typo on the 12,000psi. How did you calculate 12,700? I may drop it to 4.0.
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I interpolated. And my number is only an approximation. It's based on a linear progression from the minimum to the maximum. In reality, the progression isn't perfectly linear, but it's close enough that the mid-range interpolation probably isn't too far off the mark.

BondoBob said:
Would the Lyman 50th manual have data that specific regarding the bullet types? My Lee manual only shows weight and diameter.
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The Lyman 50th manual has load data for a 125-grain JHP similar to yours (brand not specified), but they don't list any loads with Trailboss.
 
The Lyman 50th manual has load data for a 125-grain JHP similar to yours (brand not specified), but they don't list any loads with Trailboss.
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You are going to find this with most load data sources. They aren't a complete list of everything that will work with every bullet. What they are is a variety of loads based on what MOST people will want to do with various bullets.

125gr JHP bullets are "premium" compared to lead bullets, and usually used for full power and +p load levels. Trailboss is a "light & fluffy" powder, physically, designed to fill the large volume cases from the black powder era and give BP level speeds doing it.

Its not that there is no TrailBoss load that will work, its just that most people won't be using it with 125gr JHP bullets, so you usually won't see it listed in the published data.

I realize its what you have, and want to be shooting. What you need to be doing is seeking more & different bullets and powders, ones that are more commonly found in the available data.

You can order bullets on line, powder too, some things are more scarce than others, but stuff is out there in variety.

Look into some cast lead bullets (158gr is the classic) and some other powders, many will work, Bullseye W231, AA No.5 for light plinker loads, Unique AA n0.7 (and many others) will do for midrange up to full power .38s.

For many years I've loaded cast 158gr slugs to 850fps with Red Dot powder as my "standard .38" load. Not because Red Dot is better than others, just because it works well enough, and I had a keg of it I needed to use for something....;)

Another thing, if online doesn't work for you (and when the virus situation allows), TALK to the people where you bought your bullets. Most of the time, shops will be happy to order things they don't have on their shelves, if you tell them, "if you get this, I WILL buy it".

Or they may be willing to order things just for you.

Also, talk to the cowboy action shooters here and other places online, they use a lot of trailboss and might have a load you can use with what you have now.

I did buy one "pound" of Trail Boss some time back, but never got around to using it. Was a bit surprised that the "one pound can" size was 12oz, not 16.

Its made to fill .45 Colt, .44-40, .38-40 size cases. I'm sure there is a usable load for .38 special, I just don't know what it is.

Good Luck, let us know how it goes.
 
44 AMP said:
There may be certain ones that won't fit in your gun (like long 180gr+) but they can be used with the .38 Special case, and there are .38 Special loads for them.
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There is data for heavy bullets in the 38 Special/357 Magnum for up to 200 grain bullets. There used to be factory 200 grain 38 Special ammo.

Accurate has load data for 230 grain lead bullets in the 38 Special.
 
There is data for heavy bullets in the 38 Special/357 Magnum for up to 200 grain bullets. There used to be factory 200 grain 38 Special ammo.
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Yes, there are. I remember the old 200gr "police" load. Saw some fired from a Detective Special fail to go through a car windshield, in the days before safety glass!

There are some bullets that can be loaded too long to work in some guns. AND there are .358 rifle bullets in various weights that can be used in SOME .38s/.357s.

Had a friend some years back, got some 210gr cast slugs, really long looking ones. He wanted to use them in a .357 Marlin carbine. Loaded up a couple (and without measuring their COAL it seems) stuck 2 in the carbine magazine, and then found out they were loaded too LONG to work through the action and feed into the chamber. I wound up taking his rifle apart so we could get them out.

Somebody has data for loading about every bullet out there, but it isn't always on the Internet...
 
44 AMP said:
Yes, there are. I remember the old 200gr "police" load. Saw some fired from a Detective Special fail to go through a car windshield, in the days before safety glass!
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Laminated windshields offer fair resistance to lots of things, like rocks, etc.
 
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