Can a Rieliable HD 1911 with a Rail be purchased on a budget?
- Thread starter Cossack
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Cossak said:
Are you dead-set on a 1911?
Theres the CZ-97, HK USP/HK45, and a few other 45's with a safety.
Honestly though, I'm conflicted about a 1911 for HD; I expect my 1911's to have a great trigger, but that equals "light trigger" in my book, which is not particularly ideal for HD/SD.. even with the safety.
They're also short several rounds compared to other options and I'm leery of their reliability no matter who makes it, in my price range anyway.
I've got a DW Valor on my short list... even it will take a bunch of rounds to earn a spot in one of the micro vaults I have scattered around the house.
Cossak said:
I had a really good shooting accurate Para with a great trigger. It was super smooth in every way, but it was not HD reliable and I wouldn't consider a Para for that roll without a lot of proving rounds through it. Even then many of the parts are MIM and its just so-so for a 1911.
No - it's largely a matter of taste. The attraction of a 1911 is not the .45 ACP, it's that I love the ergonomics, aesthetics, and controls of a 1911. The 1911 is also my most common carry gun, followed closely by the hi-power...but I'm not aware of any hi-power with a rail. I do like CZs and have also been looking at them - probably the CZ75 variants with rails that haven't replaced the safeties with decockers.
Still, I'd like a 1911 in this role as first choice, just because I prefer them. I won't, however, ditch my P229 for a gun of questionable reliability.
You can get a para black ops for under a $1000. Has a rail and mine has been 100% reliable. Has all the features you'd want including night sights and a 15 round capacity or you can get the single stack. Great guns. Check out cdnn sports. Para has $100 rebate if purchased before 2015.
I shot my Sig Scorpion full sized 1911 for the second time today. Has 362 rounds of about 5 different types of ammo through it. It's been 100% reliable. I paid about $750 out the door for mine brand new!
There are lots of good prices on new Sig 1911s on gunbroker. I still see them in stores for around $1100.00 but you can get the same exact new guns for less than $800.00 on gunbroker after shipping and other fees.
I have a light mounted on mine and I was questioning if I would really like it being on there all the time since I bought a holster for it that requires the light to be mounted for proper holster retention. I really enjoyed shooting it today. The light helped absorb some of the recoil and it all works well with the holster. I have a streamlight TLR-1 mounted to it. I did most of my shooting with the light off, but every now and then after drawing the pistol and disengaging the safety I would turn on the light, take a few shots, turn it off, reengage the safety and repeat. The whole process felt pretty solid, I was comfortable with everything and enjoyed myself
I dig the Sig, and considering the price I paid, all the features, and it's reliability, I think it's a great deal and would meet your needs.
Good luck.
There are lots of good prices on new Sig 1911s on gunbroker. I still see them in stores for around $1100.00 but you can get the same exact new guns for less than $800.00 on gunbroker after shipping and other fees.
I have a light mounted on mine and I was questioning if I would really like it being on there all the time since I bought a holster for it that requires the light to be mounted for proper holster retention. I really enjoyed shooting it today. The light helped absorb some of the recoil and it all works well with the holster. I have a streamlight TLR-1 mounted to it. I did most of my shooting with the light off, but every now and then after drawing the pistol and disengaging the safety I would turn on the light, take a few shots, turn it off, reengage the safety and repeat. The whole process felt pretty solid, I was comfortable with everything and enjoyed myself
I dig the Sig, and considering the price I paid, all the features, and it's reliability, I think it's a great deal and would meet your needs.
Good luck.
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NJgunowner
New member
The reality is that people will claim their gun is run on Jesus juice and because they heard on the interwebz brand X had a problem 10 years ago it has to be junk.
I've had a Colt Delta Elite, Springfield loaded 1911 9mm, and Sig traditional Reverse two tone 1911... all were excellent. I still have the Sig btw.
I wouldn't buy a para because you know someone's cousin had a problem once about a decade ago and I can't let it go...
I've heard more Para horror stories than Sig btw.
Anyway, the Sig's are good guns. You might also want to look into Springfield 1911's, reliable with a good service rep if you do have an issue.
I've had a Colt Delta Elite, Springfield loaded 1911 9mm, and Sig traditional Reverse two tone 1911... all were excellent. I still have the Sig btw.
I wouldn't buy a para because you know someone's cousin had a problem once about a decade ago and I can't let it go...
I've heard more Para horror stories than Sig btw.
Anyway, the Sig's are good guns. You might also want to look into Springfield 1911's, reliable with a good service rep if you do have an issue.
Cossack said:
I like the 229 for home defense, and post only to wonder whether a 1911 pattern will be an improvement.
I was slow to switch away from 1911s. In retrospect, I compare them to the old MGB I had as a lad. When everything was patched up and tuned just right, it was easy to love. However most of the time, it needed some attention or adjustment or repair.
Modern cars don't inspire the same kind of affection, but they don't seem to require the same routine attention.
In your position, I would get whatever 1911 I want to shoot recreationally, and keep the trustworthy 229 for home.
One warning: the reflexes one develops with 229s and 1911s are not complimentary.
Lead shooter
New member
Ever thought of the P220 SAO? 45 ACP, rail, and it's a SIG. Nice trigger, disassembles like other P series, great reliable reputation.
Just look for a SA Operator series, they are a pretty good production 1911 with a rail that go for $700-$800 when you can find them.
I had a SA Champion Light Weight Operator (4'' model w/ alumnium frame) that was a fantastic little 1911. It was made solid and tight, shot and carried great. Trigger was good, not great, but it was a nice gun.
You can probably find a nice Kimber TLE/RL for cheapish, LAPD SWAT issued them, prove its reliable, and your mags are reliable and you are good to go. I have a Kimber Desert Warrior wearing a TRL-1 that sometimes stays out for Home Defense. Mine has proved time and time again its reliable, it gets shot a lot, and cleaned only ever +1000 rounds.
I have sold lots of 1911's, I'd go with a new production Sig 1911 over a Para/Rem/Freedom Group.
I had a SA Champion Light Weight Operator (4'' model w/ alumnium frame) that was a fantastic little 1911. It was made solid and tight, shot and carried great. Trigger was good, not great, but it was a nice gun.
You can probably find a nice Kimber TLE/RL for cheapish, LAPD SWAT issued them, prove its reliable, and your mags are reliable and you are good to go. I have a Kimber Desert Warrior wearing a TRL-1 that sometimes stays out for Home Defense. Mine has proved time and time again its reliable, it gets shot a lot, and cleaned only ever +1000 rounds.
I have sold lots of 1911's, I'd go with a new production Sig 1911 over a Para/Rem/Freedom Group.
Hey, whatever makes you sleep at night.
Fact is all companies make mistakes and lemons, I have sent guns back to Sig, HK, S&W you name it for customers. A reliable gun is just that.... a reliable gun, regardless of what bilboard is plastered on the side of it. A non-reliable gun is just that... non-reliable. Only way to distinguish it is testing the particular gun for yourself, hence a lot of people won't carry a handgun until it fires 1000 rounds or similar with out any issues.
Being prepared is just that.... BE PREPARED.... just because your gun worked well under perfect conditions on a static range does not mean it can't fail or jam... proper training is needed to fire it, along with clear a jam or malfunction. Even then there is never any thing as 100%.
A little rabbit trail...sorry. But to what HKfan said:
I've had a small assortment of guns from various makers and flavors over the years. Old, new...handgun, rifle, shotgun... whatever. Some I still have, some I traded for something else. (Always regret the trades, ha! Should've kept the old and just bought another.) Here's the point. I've had a little trouble with almost all of them (bolt action rifles excluded) from time to time. Most of the time it isn't the gun. It's usually a magazine or ammo issue. Sometimes it's me or my error. But after a little tweaking or tuning, the rig almost always turns into a "reliable" gun.
I've had a small assortment of guns from various makers and flavors over the years. Old, new...handgun, rifle, shotgun... whatever. Some I still have, some I traded for something else. (Always regret the trades, ha! Should've kept the old and just bought another.) Here's the point. I've had a little trouble with almost all of them (bolt action rifles excluded) from time to time. Most of the time it isn't the gun. It's usually a magazine or ammo issue. Sometimes it's me or my error. But after a little tweaking or tuning, the rig almost always turns into a "reliable" gun.
I agree with you most times its a magazine or ammo issue, or sometimes extractors need to be tweeked some, springs need changing ect. However companies do make lemons, my job depends on that.
It happens, they are made by man, not gods, so I find it perfectly normal.My point was if you are going to depend your life on a firearm, you should personally see that it is fit, not just go by brand names. Lets be honest, Sig has since fallen from its ivory pillar it once stood on due to current leadership. My point was people generally lack the training needed to be able to fire a gun, and generally ignore the training to be able to clear a malfunction under stress. Shooting tight groups with brand XYZ on a sunny static range is one thing, but that is not generally how self defense situations play out.
Have some brand proven MORE reliable than others..... sure, I'll give you that, I was simply saying don't blindly follow whats engaved on the slide and think your life is OK in their hands.
Prime example is PLENTY of people like Glocks for defensive handguns, I myself have a custom Glock 19. Glock's are known for limp wristing issues when held improperly. Bob gets a glock and shoots it great on a static range in a normal stance, with a neutral two handed grip. Now when there is a shooting at the mall, or movie theater, Bob might be holding onto his daughter or wife with his off hand, while running to safety, trying to shoot that Glock one handed, when it jams. Bob never decided to test the Glock under stressful situations.
Obviously we can cook up any hypothetical situation, that is not my point, I am simply just saying, don't settle for brand XYZ based on reputation... people need to shoot, train, and prove their own guns reliable, regardless of brand name.