Campus Carry

C

chasehav2014

Inactive
What do ya'll think about being able to conceal carry on college campuses? I don't really see how it's different than carrying at Wal-Mart. They are all adults. There are more kids at Wal-Mart than on a college campus.
 
Depends on which campus you are talking about. If it is a privately owned school then it is there property and therefore their right to decide if you can have guns on it or not. If it is a public campus then I think that the government should allow carry on the campus.
 
I agree with you that there shouldn't be a law prohibing carry on public campuses. And private campuses can choose for themselves.
 
All public educational institutions, K - university, in Utah must allow permitees to carry firarms on-campus. There have not been, to the best of my knowledge, any problems arising as a result of this policy, other than issues initiated by the institution itself.
 
If I were a criminal, I would go out of my way to rob/rape/whateverothercrime I am doing in "Gun Free Zones". Especially college campus's, lots of dumb young people with lots of good cars and high end electronics who are not very likely to put up a fight.

I think the "Criminals for gun control" video below sums it up best


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngsKzdKNAmo



All that being said, a private institute has the right to make whatever rules it wants to.
 
Depends on which campus you are talking about. If it is a privately owned school then it is there property and therefore their right to decide if you can have guns on it or not.
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All that being said, a private institute has the right to make whatever rules it wants to.
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I disagree most strongly.

Not all private property is equal. If some random person visits you at home, if you like, you can notify them that they're not welcome, and invoke trespass law, based on the fact that they voted for Obama.

If some random person starts wandering around a store open to the public, or any college campus, unless the person is going out of his way to act suspicious, nobody is going to notice.

For that kind of "private property" -- a place that's open to the public -- there should be no right to exclude people for passive -- that is, passive at the time they're on the property in question -- behaviors that fall within societal norms; carrying a gun concealed is within societal norms. Voting for Obama is within societal norms. If a college or store tried to kick someone off their property for voting for Obama, I'd have the same complaint. Creating a ruckus or flag burning may or may not be within societal norms, but they are active behaviors that I think can be legitimately discriminated against without even considering whether they are within societal norms.
 
What do ya'll think about being able to conceal carry on college campuses? I don't really see how it's different than carrying at Wal-Mart. They are all adults. There are more kids at Wal-Mart than on a college campus.
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No, they are NOT all adults.

Well if you are going to try using the a counter to the Sally Struthers "save the children" argument, then you are going to have to do better research. Between child care facilities, early childhood development programs, preschools, and advanced education for high school students (some of which include residency programs), a given college campus may have literally hundreds of children present on campus, though they are often not seen or noticed by the general student population.

I am all for campus carry, but at a tremendous numbers of colleges and universities, your argument that there are more kids at Wal-mart than on a college campus, at least during normal daily operations, is flat out wrong. It certainly does not work as a generalized argument.
 
The percentage of children is higher at Wal-Mart more than likely. With what you said I could say there are more children in the USA than in Canada but the USA obviously has way more people. The same goes with the other.
 
Old debate - it wouldn't affect many students as they are below 21 on the primarily residential campuses.

It would apply to those over that and have impact on the returning adult student population and faculty and staff.

The reasons against carry are just a replay of the generic reasons to be against concealed carry with the added nuance of the crazed, drunk, frat boy in the bizarre environment of the dorms.

The private property argument - :barf: Those who make it are being played by antigunners. Suckers.

Empirically, we don't know yet if concealed carry on campus would be a plus or minus in terms of any outcome.

There are two main arguments put forward for carry (on top of generic RKBA arguments).

1. Dangerous campuses in terms of standard crimes - mugging, rapes.
2. Mitigation of rampages.

If you argue for the later, you'd better deal with the training counterargument. Being in an intensive gunfight surrounded by innocents isn't for some Rambo.

I know folks who think I would be ok to carry on campus but mock some proponents of carry who they wouldn't trust.
 
Glenn E. Meyer said:
Being in an intensive gunfight surrounded by innocents isn't for some Rambo.
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Glenn, good point. Here is a question (forgive if off topic) but after watching that RIGGED Diane Sawyer trash piece a year or so back how would the dynamic of a rampage shooter on a college campus play out with legal CCW in place and a student in the class based on empirical data you know? I have read that once a rampage killer (Cho, et al) is confronted with equal deadly force they will self terminate. So, would there really be an "intensive gunfight" or would the killer suicide once they saw another student with a gun or were wounded?
 
Tennessee Gentleman said:
I have read that once a rampage killer (Cho, et al) is confronted with equal deadly force they will self terminate. So, would there really be an "intensive gunfight" or would the killer suicide once they saw another student with a gun or were wounded?
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I'd think it would depend on the dynamics of the situation and the individual. Wouldn't surprise me if some fought to the last gasp. Others might fold at the first hint of opposition. There's not one all-inclusive answer.
 
Don,
Yeah but we are speculating and I was wondering what Glenn might know empirically. Anecdotally, my reads are the minute LEO arrives (which equates to the deadly force) the shooter suicides. The CO church incident with the lady security guard comes to mind. Seems like the norm is that they intend to die and will do so the minute they are opposed by deadly force in close proximity.
 
It didn't work that way with the Fort Hood shooter; he shot and wounded Sergeant Kimberley Munley, one of the two police officers who rushed him, after she began shooting at him. And he didn't kill himself -- as I recall, he's now paralyzed, and awaiting trial.
 
Let me make a couple of points as an Associate Professor of Business at a private university. First of all, I fully support the idea of allowing people who hold a CCL to carry on all campuses, public and private. As somebody pointed out, not all private property is the same. Your home has doors to exclude anybody you want to keep out, but a college campus is likely open for any bozo, student, faculty, staff or crook to wander on and off at will. Very few have any sort of fence or wall around them.

The big problem on college campuses, and the big risk, is not the lone shooter killing as many people as possible; although, sadly those things happen occasionally. But the worse problem is the casual criminal who comes into the "gun free zone" of a campus with armed robbery, assault, rape, etc., on his mind. We don't hear much about that sort of crime because it is not "newsworthy" enough for the media to report widely, and college administrators like to keep that sort of problem as much out of the news as possible. One key factor is the location of the campus. If there is a high-crime area bordering the campus, then expect problems whether the administration will admit to their existence or not. If Texas law allowed, I would pack here on occasion. At least, the parking lot bill that is waiting for Perry's signature will keep them from firing me for having something in my truck.

By the way, most traditional students in Texas would not be able to carry anyway, since the minimum age for a CHL is 21 (some Juniors and most Seniors--very few Freshmen and Sophomores, unless they started late). Non-traditional age students and graduate students are typically over 25, and likely to be adults. Also, what about faculty and staff? The highest percentage of folks who use a CHL on campus would be from one of those groups: Faculty, staff, graduate students, and non-traditional age students.
 
I am a college professor at a Community College in NYC (not manhattan). I can tell you right now that the only people carrying guns on campus are some of the non-law abiding students.

Gun laws keep the guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens and allow the criminals to carry against victims that cannot defend themselves!!

-George
 
Vanya said:
It didn't work that way with the Fort Hood shooter
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I think he was a different breed of cat from Cho, Kazmierczak or others who want to kill themselves and take a few with them. I think the Ft. Hood guy was not that type. Or was he suicidal?

Anyway, I don't know hat for sure but have read of it.
 
I have heard this same argument for public transportation. When they say that legal guns should not be allowed on public transportation I always ask them if they think that there are no illegal guns being carried on public transportation.

I then ask them how safe have they have been made by not allowing CCW Guns??????

I then explain all the steps a person has to go through to get a CCW permit and the laws they have to follow. Then I ask them if they want a guy with a CCW on the bus or a guy with an illegal weapon on the bus.

the antigun private property thing is an anti-gun scam for suckers. When you explain to most people about responsible CCW ownership many do not have objections.
 
it wouldn't affect many students as they are below 21 on the primarily residential campuses.
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In some states one can obtain their CHL (if needed at all) at age 18 or 19, which would include the vast majority of college students in those states.
 
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