Camping/sleeping while armed

Lol, sorry, Black Bears are NOT human predators. At least not in my state. Maybe in a Stephen King book, but not in the woods and swamps. And as far as being prepared, worry about yourself. As I mentioned, I carry a revolver. (For any Human predator which is another Human) And rare to come across one back there.
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Carl,if you had started your statement with "Most" I would agree with you.
Bears,black bears included, are individuals,subject to making their own rules.

They might be the exception,but some black bears will kill and eat you,given the opportunity.

I don't think they use maps,so the state probably does not matter.

I fully agree,what preparation you make is up to you.
 
HiBC said:
Carl,if you had started your statement with "Most" I would agree with you.
Bears,black bears included, are individuals,subject to making their own rules.

They might be the exception,but some black bears will kill and eat you,given the opportunity.

I don't think they use maps,so the state probably does not matter.

I fully agree,what preparation you make is up to you.
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Sorry, this is not North Dakota. Been in these woods of the South way too long to go for any of this. Never once have we even heard of a Bear Attack, Never. Possibly up north in some of the Public Campgrounds where they feed them etc. And my experience with them in nature has been for decades. Yes, I will say that any animal including a Whitetail deer can be dangerous. But I am not hunting them, sitting over a feed etc. AND NEVER once have we ever had a predator Bear looking for any humans.
This guy that "Bucky is linking too can say what he wants for his state and his experience hunting them where he lives.
But no, this is not at all real where I live and I am not about to start carrying a 10mm handgun for a Bear. And to be quite frank, I do not know a single soul that does nor has.
Although I may start since a Big Foot was spotted a few years ago:eek:
And I would bet that a Sasquatch will take down more people in the Next decade than any Predator Black Bear.
No black bears cannot read a map, and even some have even come right into our city, just had one last spring. No big deal, but I doubt any Maine, Wyoming black bears have made it down to Tidewater Virginia.

But if by some Miraculous wonder a Black Bear does attack me and eat me, then I guess that ts just bad luck.:(

As the saying goes. "Sometimes you eat the Bear, Sometimes the Bear eats you.":)
 
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On the topic of the drunk jumping on the tent:

I question using a gun I assume is loaded (As they ALL are) to beat someone in the ribs with . The odds of a negligent discharge are high. If you intend to shoot the guy,pull the trigger. If you do not intend to shoot the guy,it must be a bad idea to shoot him. Don't brandish in a careless way likely to "accidentally" shoot him.. It won't work out in court and you will likely deeply regret having shot a human being

In an SD situation, its SD if you can justify you shot someone with the means and intent to kill you.

Its different if you are using a gun for punishment or intimidation.
Thats probably a crime.

Regardless how a story sounds for a "Good Old Boy Beer Story" ,when we are in real life, We had best consider how the story will sound before a judge and prosecutor,and what a jury will think of it.

Not every drunk jackass needs to be shot. And sometimes its the guy who introduces the gun who is acting the jackass.

I'm not a moderator, but some stories might give the anti-gunners something to work with.

No doubt the jackass drunk tent jumper was wrong.

He may not have been the only one
 
HiBC said:
On the topic of the drunk jumping on the tent:

I question using a gun I assume is loaded (As they ALL are) to beat someone in the ribs with . The odds of a negligent discharge are high. If you intend to shoot the guy,pull the trigger. If you do not intend to shoot the guy,it must be a bad idea to shoot him. Don't brandish in a careless way likely to "accidentally" shoot him.. It won't work out in court and you will likely deeply regret having shot a human being

In an SD situation, its SD if you can justify you shot someone with the means and intent to kill you.

Its different if you are using a gun for punishment or intimidation.
Thats probably a crime.

Regardless how a story sounds for a "Good Old Boy Beer Story" ,when we are in real life, We had best consider how the story will sound before a judge and prosecutor,and what a jury will think of it.

Not every drunk jackass needs to be shot. And sometimes its the guy who introduces the gun who is acting the jackass.

I'm not a moderator, but some stories might give the anti-gunners something to work with.

No doubt the jackass drunk tent jumper was wrong.

He may not have been the only one
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The idea of shooting a drunk kid or kids pulling a stupid stunt is a scary thing to think about. And in Public Camp grounds you should consider that Alcohol will be consumed and in a lot of places a Police Officer is not around for miles.
You make a good point. And in a public camp ground, all you have is a tent, you simply cannot shut and lock the door and wait for police. You have a confrontation in the making and this is where danger pops her head. Confrontations can escalate real fast. And if you even pull your weapon, then you may still end up in jail. (Brandishing is against the law in my state) Your word against theirs. Some food for thought for sure.
 
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I've been hiking/camping in N. GA since the 1970's. While it is true that 2 legged predators are by far the most likely problem black bear are common in the areas where I spend most of my time.

I've also spent a fair amount of time in the Smokys and have camped all over the west including Yellowstone. Most bear don't want any trouble and while I've seen many, I've never felt threatened. But bear do attack. There have been 3 people killed and several more injured by black bear within a 2 hour drive from my house in the last dozen years.

Virtually all problem black bear are those who have been fed by other humans. It isn't uncommon for hikers to see a bear and put out food to get a better picture. Then the bear expects food from every human they see. Most aren't actually attacking you, just aggressively trying to get your pack for food. But you could still end up injured or dead.

We had a bear a few years ago that got good at sneaking up behind hikers and stealing the packs off their backs as they walked. It was eventually killed.

With that in mind I choose a gun for 2 legged predators 1st, but something big enough to work on bear in a pinch. I used to carry a 3" or 4" 357 mag revolver and that still isn't a bad option.

But anymore I prefer some sort of semi. A 9mm loaded with some of the heavier 147 gr hardcast bullets from Buffalo Bore and Double Tap work pretty well on bear if you have to use it. I think the gun you have is a sensible minimum, but if in bear country would advise looking into the better loads for it.

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=155

They worked on an Alaskan Brown bear.

https://www.wideopenspaces.com/alaska-man-kills-charging-brown-bear-with-a-9mm-pistol/

But I just feel better with a 10mm or 45 loaded with similar bullets. I used a G29 in 10mm for years, but wouldn't sleep with a loaded chamber.

I thought about keeping it in a holster, but still needed 2 hands to get it out of a holster not attached to my hip. I found it just as fast and a lot easier to just leave the chamber empty. Another reason for a semi is the ability to attach a light for night time use.

My go-to camping gun more recently is a Smith M&P 45 Compact with a 1911 style safety. I can attach a light, leave the chamber loaded with the safety on and use 8 round mags loaded with 255 gr Buffalo Bore ammo when carrying. Or use the longer full size 10 round mags at night. One mag loaded with conventional HP ammo, another with bear loads.
 
If someone jumps on my tent, I am not going to wait to get out of it and assess if he is a threat or not before grabbing my gun. I won't have finger on the trigger or safety off until I KNOW it is a threat, but I wouldn't be thinking 'oh- it is probably some dumb kid'. I'd be HOPING that- but that is different.


MY camping story with guns:

December 29-30th, 2001, I was camping on the Navajo [Dine] Reservation, near Canyon De Chelley. The public campground I was in was about 10-15 miles from the nearest town.

It was raining, so I decided to shift stuff around and we'd sleep IN our car, rather than the tent. [the tent spots were all compressed, and it was obvious all water would pool in the bottom of the tent.]

Around 2-3am, I am woken up by a knocking on the passenger window. It was a 20-something woman that appeared either stoned or drunk [or both].

She was asking if we had any money to help her out as she was trying to get back to California and was 'rolled by the indians, man. I was F***in ROLLED by the indians!'- in her words, in the local town we'd just passed. I cracked my passenger window to allow clear communication, but not open enough to get a finger in to shove the window down. [Note: CA was the OPPOSITE direction from the town from where we were camped. We were definitely on the New Mexico side of Town, on a road that either dead ended or went to New Mexico.]

I kept telling her to go away and I had no money. She kept behaving as if she was drunk.

The entire time I was watching the driver's side mirror and rear view mirror in case someone was sneaking up to smash it and grab me, but saw nothing [pitch black, 2-3am, 10+ miles from a town of less than 20K people and raining.]

After about 3 brief interchanges, I put my hand into my bag and removed my pistol [Kahr K9 at time], expecting it to get hairy at any moment. I told my friend to scoot down as far as possible and apologized, as I told her that any firing might be right over her head, with hot brass ejecting. She scooted down [we'd had this conversation before the trip] and got ready.

The crazy lady heard me and saw me pull the pistol out to be ready: Instantly she 'sobered up'- saying 'sorry to bother you. No problem here, man. I've got no problem. I'm going.' and she high tailed it away.

I stayed up for the rest of the night with pistol in hand, pretending to 'sleep', and nothing ever happened.


9mm with 124gr hollowpoints for 2-legged predators was my choice for this trip, based on the fact we would be in campgrounds and short trails in parks, rather than really 'outdoors'. People were my main concerns when planning this trip.



It was amazing how fast she became coherent once there was a gun in play by someone who wasn't focused solely on her.

Another instance where having a firearm probably prevented violence, but was never reported.


JMR40- I wish I could get an M&P 45 Compact, but am in CA. It isn't 'on our list', or I'd prefer that. I find that the few M&Ps with thumb safeties that I HAVE held, well, the safety was too easy to switch off/on. I prefer the heavier 'click' of the safety on my 1911 or BHP [or Taurus PT99].

I hear you about concerns about a Glock with a round in the chamber and tent sleeping, though.

I also tend to use the BuffaloBore website as a index of the most powerful 'hunting' loads for handguns.

I went Glock G30, but have a .45-10mm conversion barrel for it [which has worked JUST FINE for me, but is problematic enough that they are not made any longer, i hear.] I am never sure if I want to do .45Super rounds or hot 10mm rounds in it for woods backpacking.

Both put it into the category of mid-range .357mag rounds, but with 4 more in it than my GP100 [CA here: 10 round max for me].
 
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When I was 15 me and a couple of buddies went camping, our parents dropped us off at a state forrest site. One of my buddies stole a bottle of vodka from his folks. I'm sure we made a few neighbors miserable that night.

We also sat in our tent and shot holes in the roof with a slingshot, and after we passed out we got heavy rain. So there was some punishment.

As an adult I've moved sites a couple of times when I saw trouble.
 
* * * But anymore I prefer some sort of semi. A 9mm loaded with some of the heavier 147 gr hardcast bullets from Buffalo Bore and Double Tap work pretty well on bear if you have to use it. I think the gun you have is a sensible minimum, but if in bear country would advise looking into the better loads for it.
They worked on an Alaskan Brown bear.
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That Shumaker dude got lucky. He risked two other peoples lives trying to "prove" 9mm HC boolits could stop a bear (in his case, an enraged sow).

But I just feel better with a 10mm or 45 loaded with similar bullets. I used a G29 in 10mm for years, but wouldn't sleep with a loaded chamber.
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Resident Alaskans pack something chambered in 10mm AUTO when out & about in the bad bush back-country where the big bruins roam. Why? 'Cause it works (if properly loaded with real 10mm ammo):

Alaskans Stop Grizzly Bear Charge with Glock 10mm:
https://www.ammoland.com/2019/10/al...arge-with-glock-10mm-on-elmendorf-richardson/

:cool:
 
If the drunk in question happens to be a son, nephew or grandson, wouldn't one want an armed tent dweller (or home owner), to utilize some restraint and NOT point a loaded gun (finger on trigger, heart pounding, obviously scared), in your loved ones direction unless they absolutely have NO other choice?
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So, are they not a threat, just because they are under the influence?

If tent jumping guy was stone cold sober, but just being an ass, does he warrant a weapon pointed at him for the same actions as drunk guy?

At what point while you’re struggling to get out of your collapsed tent, in the dark, having just been assaulted out of the blue, do you stop and tell yourself “oh, he’s just drunk. It’s ok, he’s no threat, nothing bad could happen, it’s not like he’s sober.”

You do you, I’ll do me. For me, just cause someone is under the influence, doesn’t mean they get a free pass, doesn’t mean they can’t pose a threat.
 
"For me, just cause someone is under the influence, doesn’t mean they get a free pass, doesn’t mean they can’t pose a threat."

First off, I hope you never encounter a situation as previously described. Second, convincing yourself you are justified in your actions while armed with a gun is one thing.

Convincing the District Attorney's Office is something altogether different.

Be careful.
 
First off, I hope you never encounter a situation as previously described.
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So do I.

I’ve had to draw my pistol once in the 15 years I’ve been carrying, I sincerely hope I never have to again.
 
I camp fairly often in the North Georgia Mountains. I generally carry a S&W M66 fully loaded with hollow points. I suspect two legged creatures (No Yetis) are the biggest threat, but we have run across a few curious bears. During the day I keep it secured in my pack which is always very Close, but at night I have it in my empty boot right next to me. Again, not too many really threats, but why take a chance...
 
As I mentioned, we do not have bear attacks where I live and yet a large bear population.
Interesting to see the studies of Bear attacks on the Applacian Trail, where there are always people, and People with food etc. Yes, the have had attacks, but the odds are 1 in 3 million.
https://www.greenbelly.co/pages/appalachian-trail-murders
Muders by humans is also very low.

Most people will die from Heart Attacks, Lightening, Falls etc. Yes, I carry a Revolver
snubbie when spending time in my explorations of the woods, Swamps and Forrest like i have done since a young Boy. Necessary. No, just provides peace of mind.

"However, as the statistics stand, there’s roughly 1 fatal attack every 8-10 years. The ATC claims nearly 3million visited the trail this year, this means that nearly 1 in 24-30million chance you will be involved in a fatal bear attack."

https://appalachiantrailhistory.org/exhibits/show/danger/blackbears

I do not have any worries about A predator Black Bear, or the Predator Water Moccasin that seeks out humans. I do have worry about LYME DISEASE much more. I have more concern about being taken OUT by a Text messaging driver on the way to the Swamps etc.

I stay out of places that I find more dangerous. I will not go into Chicago, Balitmore DC etc. or the local hood. The chances of being killed in Chicago are 100 times higher for example.
I do not camp in public camp grounds.The swamps/Woods/Forrest are the safest places on earth to me. And as far away from humans the safer they are.
 
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I have no arguement with anything you said,Carl. It all makes sense to me.

But you,sir,were not sleeping beside my former spouse when she said "Don't let the bear bite me again!"

It wasn't your Wife who felt the front paws press her down as the bear took a bite of her butt.

We were 200 river miles from the nearest road,this bear was not leaving before he ate someone. Yelling,dog barking,warning shot, I even hit him across the face.

As Elmer said "Hell,I was THERE!"

You do you! Not likely you will convert me.

I'm truly grateful I dismissed advice similar to yours ,relied on my own judgement and was not helpless when faced with this 6 foot 6 in nose to tail predatory old boar black bear.

I had my Win 97 12 ga and my Ruger SBH.
 
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HiBC said:
I have no arguement with anything you said,Carl. It all makes sense to me.

But you,sir,were not sleeping beside my former spouse when she said "Don't let the bear bite me again!"

It wasn't your Wife who felt the front paws press her down as the bear took a bite of her butt.

We were 200 river miles from the nearest road,this bear was not leaving before he ate someone. Yelling,dog barking,warning shot, I even hit him across the face.

As Elmer said "Hell,I was THERE!"

You do you! Not likely you will convert me.

I'm truly grateful I dismissed advice similar to yours ,relied on my own judgement and was not helpless when faced with this 6 foot 6 in nose to tail predatory old boar black bear.

I had my Win 97 12 ga and my Ruger SBH.
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Sorry to hear about your ordeal. Must have been terrible. Hopefully you wife is now OK. Not trying to convert anyone. And as I said, I carry a firearm. Really do not care what another person carries for protection. What state was the bear attack? What ever happened to the bear? Was it a known nuisance bear? Did they later track it down. Was the area a place where a lot of people camped?
Again, hope your wife is now ok.
 
She is fine. I killed the bear. 200 river miles and 7 hours of washboard Haul Road and she was at the hospital.

We were at the Junction of the Yukon and Nowitna rivers,in AK, .Pristine country,no hiking trails.

A river guide named Jeff Renneke (I may have mis spelled his name) was the guide in the boat I was taking through Brown's Canyon on the Arkansas River.

He wrote a book on bears.

He advised when they had problem bears building the AK pipeline they would put them to sleep,sling load them to a chopper,and relocate them just about where we were.

The "Corrupted by Man" thing might be a point,but my story proves you can contact one of those bears anywhere.

Does it matter if the bear has a "poor little kid brought up in a bad neighborhood" story ?? Where have people not contacted wildlife?

Read Kanut's "Bear tales of Alaska". A former Geo Survey worker typed her story with a pencil held in her teeth. She was working,unarmed,only had a radio. The small female black bear that jumped her chewed both her arms off. It had to do with reaching for her radio.

Great book to read a chapter before crawling in the bag.

I don't think the state matters much. Use People for an example. You can get murdered in any state.
 
HiBC said:
I have no arguement with anything you said,Carl. It all makes sense to me.

But you,sir,were not sleeping beside my former spouse when she said "Don't let the bear bite me again!"

It wasn't your Wife who felt the front paws press her down as the bear took a bite of her butt.

We were 200 river miles from the nearest road,this bear was not leaving before he ate someone. Yelling,dog barking,warning shot, I even hit him across the face.

As Elmer said "Hell,I was THERE!"

You do you! Not likely you will convert me.

I'm truly grateful I dismissed advice similar to yours ,relied on my own judgement and was not helpless when faced with this 6 foot 6 in nose to tail predatory old boar black bear.

I had my Win 97 12 ga and my Ruger SBH.
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I've read that story of yours before and I love it, HiBC. I've referred it to other people for them to read.

Now, had it happened to me camping with my former spouse, it would have saved me lots of $$$$ in alimony payments years down the road!
 
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