(California) Senate approves bill to 'microstamp' pistol cartridges

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arkie2

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http://cbs2.com/californiawire/CA-XGR--GunID/resources_news_html

Thursday, September 06, 2007
By DON THOMPSON
Associated Press Writer
SACRAMENTO (AP) California would be the first state to require that every semiautomatic handgun cartridge be stamped with an identifying mark if the governor signs a bill that has now cleared both chambers of the Legislature.

The Senate approved the bill Thursday, sending it back to the Assembly for a final vote on amendments. Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger has not said whether he will sign the bill once it reaches his desk.

The measure would require that, starting in 2010, every semiautomatic handgun sold in California would have to automatically ``microstamp'' each bullet cartridge in two locations as it is fired. The microscopic stamping would identify the gun's make, model and serial number.

The bill would not affect revolvers, rifles or shotguns, but supporters say semiautomatics are the weapon used in a majority of homicides committed with firearms. Unlike revolvers, semiautomatics eject a cartridge each time they are fired, scattering evidence at a crime scene.

``This is something that would be helpful in identifying the gun that was used in the commission of a crime,'' said Sen. Jack Scott, D-Altadena, during Thursday's debate. ``It's just giving law enforcement one more tool.''

The measure cleared the Senate 21-17, with no votes to spare.

Opponents said the technology and the bill itself are dangerously flawed.

Criminals could collect cartridges from firing ranges and strew them at crime scenes, implicating innocent citizens, said Sen. Dennis Hollingsworth, R-Temecula. The firing pin that stamps the cartridge will either have to be so soft that it could be easily erased, or so brittle that it could break, he said.

Sen. Dave Cogdill, R-Modesto, argued that the bill will add ``more cost and unnecessary harassment, quite frankly, of law-abiding citizens.''

Similar legislation was introduced in Massachusetts and Rhode Island this year, according to the bill's author, Assemblyman Mike Feuer, D-Los Angeles. A federal bill, modeled on California's, is being considered by Sen. Edward Kennedy, D-Mass., and Rep. Xavier Becerra, D-Los Angeles.
 
Politicians will do anything to con their constituents into believing they serve their interests. Like most appeals to hysteria, this legislation inconveniences legal gun owners and does nothing about illegal use of weapons.
 
Agree completely but I think there's more to this legislation than the stated reasons. It's absurd to think this is actually going to help law enforcement. Too many ways to get around the law. Instead I think the real purpose is simply to make the manufacture of semi auto handguns prohibitively expensive. It's really nothing more than a stealth ban.
 
Instead I think the real purpose is simply to make the manufacture of semi auto handguns prohibitively expensive. It's really nothing more than a stealth ban.
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Exactly. And if the implementing technology causes unreliablity in semi-autos, then people will be led to avoid this type of weapon, harming manufacturers and reducing the availability of semi-autos.
 
Sheesh... I am surprised it even passed that part... Not only (As stated) will it make Semi-auto's expensive and unreliable.....

But it would worry me somewhat that criminals might get other casings and scatter around crime scenes. Their own guns are mostly illegally purchased and this wouldn't help... And even if it was easily proved that a legal handgun owners wasn't part of the crime at the very least they might get harassed by LEO's at the minimum.
 
I'm sure every petty thug and gangsta and MS-13 vato will be sure to have a microstamped Bryco or Glock Fotay, right? Of course, being that they own them illegally, carry them illegally, and use them illegally, they'd never break the law by filing the firing pin, right?

If this passes, if you shoot at a range in CA, pick up all your brass! Every piece!

All it would take would be Mistah Gangsta picking up some of your spent brass in a range, then tossing it out the window when they do a drive-by, and the police would be paying you a 2am no-knock visit.
 
Not that this was ever a concern for the critters who drafted and voted for this, but is "micro-stamping" even technically feasible on a production handgun? 2010 is an awfully short lead-in for such a drastic innovation. But as arkie2 and buzz knox point out, the intention is to impose a de facto ban on new semi-autos, period.

As goes Kali, so goes the nation . . . ? :eek:
 
If it becomes law...

I think it's time all handgun makers do the same thing Ronnie Barrett did - forma a pact and refuse to sell ANY pistols to LEOAs in Calif until they repeal it.
 
Actually, I think the ganstas are going to use the ammo as "bragging rights."

They already stamp the drugs they use. I'm surprised the gangs haven't stamped the ammo themselves.
 
Once again Kalifornia leads the nation in ridiculous legislation. All semi auto manufactures should refuse to sell to CA LEO's, including parts for existing weapons, if this 'thing' actually becomes law.

If the technology could be developed it would make guns way too complicated and serve no purpose.

The hidden agenda is definitely to outlaw semi autos in the state, if it wasn't the enlightened politicians would included revolvers on their list of guns that needed enhancement to assist the police.

Me thinks too many of the states politicians are smoking funny cigarettes.

And isn't it encouraging to see that the illustrious senator from MA (Kennedy) is working on a similar 'national' bill??
 
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"micro-stamping" even technically feasible on a production handgun?
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Its just the serial number and make stamped on the firing pin. There is only one company that currently doing this and its the same company thats trying to get this bill passed. :barf: The name of the company escapes me at the moment. :barf:

There have already been univerisity tests that proved that it takes less than a minute to remove the stamp with a file.
 
All semi auto manufactures should refuse to sell to CA LEO's, including parts for existing weapons, if this 'thing' actually becomes law.
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They won't do that. There is too much money/adversting involved if an LE agency issues their firearm. Even if they did that, the LE agency will just get them from a FFL dealer.
 
So if it's just the serial no. etc. on the firing pin all a person would have to do to circumvent the intent of the law is to replace the firing pin?? If that's true it definitely is a worthless endevour.
 
This touches on another thread, that being how freedom is tied to money.

You know, you could just about wipe guns off the planet without altering a jot or a tittle of the Second Amendment.

You can destroy a man with taxes. If this new stamping issue is allowed to continue, the government might pass a new tax to cover the cost of monitoring the execution. In effect, a "tax stamp."

The problem is that this new tax might be "ten dollars per cartridge."

Now, we've all heard the arguments. There would be a revolution. There would smuggling. Reloading.

The problem ultimately is that all people will have to break all of the laws all of the time to scuttle the program. It's been done. There was so much graft, corruption and disinterest in prohibition that even a President denounced it.

The problem here is that half of the states are blue. There might not be a groundswell of support. There are already more abuses in Kalifornia than any other state.

The program in Kalifornia is a very big deal. Our Revolutionary War centered on the application of Taxes and Acts.
 
So if it's just the serial no. etc. on the firing pin all a person would have to do to circumvent the intent of the law is to replace the firing pin?? If that's true it definitely is a worthless endevour.
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No, it'd take five seconds with a flat file to destroy the stamp.
 
So waht about CA LEOs... I certainly hope they are stuck with the same limitations.

Again, we need a good SCOTUS decision and we need it now. States like NY, NJ, CA, and IL will pass any garbage they choose to circumvent the 2A unless a stand is made.
 
Just say no. Refuse to comply. File off the stamp. Change the firing pin.

At what point are you straying from civil disobedience to illegality? Can anyone say felony with the loss of your 2nd amendment right?

You all know that it will be illegal to modify your pistol to get rid of the stamp. Nevada gun shops won't sell to Californians. If you get a relative to get it for you, you run the risk of a strawman purchase.

Another stupid law in a stupid state, passed by stupid legislators, and condoned by a majority of the stupid people who live here. I'll bet our Hollywood European liberal Republican governor signs it too.
 
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