Calif. Gov. Enacts Ban on Open Handgun Carrying

"Listened to the Police Chiefs"

Oh, so only top cops get to decide what's good for the people of California? Only Chiefs get to vote for the Governor?

Personally I do not believe that the ends should justify the means in a republic. The people of CA should as a group denounce this type of thing. It is not hard to understand that manipulating any right is a bad thing. This is an example of blatant abuse of power in my opinion
 
Unless you live here (and a few other repressive states) you have no idea how bad it is and how often our legislature, controlled by persons of a persuasion that cannot be named here, comes up with stupid law after idiotic law including many relating to firearms. The law referenced above does nothing to make it easier to get a CCW permit for the (vast) majority of California residents. If you live in one of the few counties run by "good guy" sheriffs then you get your CCW permit. If not you don't - it's that simple. The idea of splitting our state into the right thinking south and east and the unnamed persons in western/coastal state was a great idea. Too bad the majority here have their foot on our necks.
 
For me any law that is in direct violation of the 2nd amendment is just a bill. They may enforce it, but I would rather take my chances with a clean conscience than hunker down in fear. If any state rammed a law through that said it was OK to have slaves, would you do it? Why do we find this to be absurd and unthinkable, but do not put equal or greater value on the 2nd amendment?

I'll tell you why! We listen to the liberal media elevating one and not the other. Over time we've become complacent and dormant to the "debatable" 2nd amendment. This is the beginning of slavery in many ways. This right was not given to us on the bargaining table with King George III and I don't think that bargaining is going to give it back. Don't be afraid to adhere to your rights even when a so called law is passed to instruct you otherwise. Seeing the 2nd Amendment in black and white does not make you an extremist, right wing nut, narrow-minded, and dogmatic, it just shows your a proud American with some common sense.
 
Tom Servo said:
Al, your ear is much closer to the ground than mine on this. Are you suggesting that Governor Brown signed these bills with this knowledge? I might be impressed with the guy if so.
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There were two things I commented upon, yesterday.

Al said:
This is either a major blunder by Jerry Brown or a very slick move (which assumes he is smart enough to pander to his base, all the while knowing what is going to happen to this law)!
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Al said:
Fiddletown, Jerry Brown is an astute politician. This could possibly be one of the slickest things he's ever done.
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The above were said after I had submitted two PM's in another forum, postulating this very idea, to individuals who do have their ears to the ground.

I know that my PM's were read, yet no answer was sent. No denial. No confirmation. Silence.

Over at CalGuns.net, hundreds of people are foaming at the mouth over this. Speculation is rampant. Yet complete silence from those in the know. A thread was started this morning in which one or two people are postulating something similar to what I wrote. Silence from those who might give an educated response. No denial. No confirmation.

The absence of an answer is in itself an answer.

Over at MD Shooters, a gentleman (who apparently has too much time on his hands) has rendered a county by county map of the US, as it regards carry (concealed or open, licensed or unlicensed).

I would like to draw your attention to the State of California. See those light green areas? Those are counties which are now Virtual Shall Issue in a May Issue State. A mere year and a half ago, most of those green counties would have been yellow or even red.

This doesn't mean that there is no work to be done there. Loads of it still need to be done. But there is a definite change.

So to those of you saying nothing is being done or nothing has changed... Open your eyes!

2ihxfsz.png
 
See those light green areas? Those are counties which are now Virtual Shall Issue in a May Issue State. A mere year and a half ago, most of those green counties would have been yellow or even red.
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So...what you're telling us is that large portions of California are just like Alabama! Yeeh haw!

Oh wait, that's not what you're telling us. ;)

There's no denying the progress in California. Sacramento's change in stance seems to have had a ripple effect, but there are still counties in which getting a permit is impossible. For many folks, it's largely dependent on a geographical lottery.

The absence of an answer is in itself an answer.
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I haven't heard anything, either, but I figured folks were too busy dealing with fallout. In a way, maybe they are. This situation gives new legs to Prieto, and could lead to state-wide reform.

What's intriguing is the idea (however unsubstantiated) that such was Gov. Brown's intention when he signed the bill.
 
but there are still counties in which getting a permit is impossible
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Tom-- CCW's are the opposite of concealed carry, but a good example of infringement. I struggle to see your logic when I read the 2nd Amendment. Freedom is not being on a government list. The last thing I would ever want for concealed carry is my weapon not to be concealed. And no I am not afraid to say this because it is an INFRINGEMENT. You can call them advancements all you want, but as soon as you buy into the idea of a CCW's your freedom is at stake.
 
I struggle to see your logic when I read the 2nd Amendment. Freedom is not being on a government list.
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I hate to tell you this sir, but you're about 40 years late to the party. There's the way things should be, and the way they are. Complaining about the former doesn't do much good, but working within the parameters of the latter, it's possible to fix things.
 
Tom Servo said:
What's intriguing is the idea (however unsubstantiated) that such was Gov. Brown's intention when he signed the bill.
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Ummmm... Kind of the perfect case of plausible deniability, don't you think?

Skidder, there was a reason that Scalia made use of those 19th century cases (Chandler, Nunn, Reid, etc.), in writing the decision in Heller. That was to show that while the bearing of arms could be regulated by the State, it could not be outright banned.

In the case of CA laws, the Judges in both Richards and Peruta did not dismiss the cases because the right only extends to the home. They dismissed the suits because a form of open carry was available.

However the rest of us might reason that unloaded open carry is useless, these two courts did not.

With the passage of this ban on all forms of open carry, the only way to carry is concealed and that can only be accomplished by permit. A permit, whose standards of issuance is entirely arbitrary and capricious, can not stand constitutional muster.

There is now a substantial burden on the right of self defense (using the words of the 9th Circuit - Nordyke, where these cases are).

To expand a bit on what Tom said, we are taking baby steps to work within the framework of what is, to what should be.
 
Tom-- Exposing is not complaining, nice try. I better go reread the part in the 2nd Amendment where it says, "if the infringement is over 40 years you have to accept it". Sorry! I could not find it in my version. You can accept the norm, but I will continue doing my job of exposing infringements.

CCW's are still infringements and a good way for the government to round up and brand the cattle.
 
Al and Tom, IIRC Jerry Brown was educated by the Jesuits.

skidder said:
...You can accept the norm, but I will continue doing my job of exposing infringements...
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Have at it. It will keep you occupied and out of the way while others tend to business. By the way, have you ever actually accomplished anything?
 
Al and Tom, IIRC Jerry Brown was educated by the Jesuits.
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I've seen several mentions of that lately, and from sources that would imply some relevance. Is there some sort of political ninjutsu the Jesuits teach their kids?
 
As I understand it, the foundation of a Jesuit education is order, hierarchy, structure, unity, and methodology. A Jesuit education is noted for intellectual rigor and discipline, including incisive reasoning.
 
Note that while Brown signed bills prohibiting unloaded open carry and requiring registration of long guns, he also signed a LTC reform bill that we RKBA folks wanted. And he vetoed a bill effectively banning the mail order purchase of handgun ammunition.
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I had not heard about the reform bill - what was included in that?

I'll be honest, I think it's a (small) step forward it California were to ban open carry but then become less restrictive on issuing licenses to carry a concealed firearm. That just means the state is become more like, well, Texas. ;)
 
It's all about fear.

Until 1967 the carry of loaded guns in CA was legal. In 1967 the CA police, legislature and governor got really scared: The Black Panthers were carrying loaded guns. In 1967 the legislature passed the Mulford Act. CA governor Reagan signed the Mulford Act into law, outlawing the carry of loaded guns.

Fast forward forty years to CA folks carrying unloaded guns in public. This alarmed the politicians and the police. The rest is history.

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Time_Line_of_California_Firearms_Laws
 
fiddletown and Tom-- Steering one person away from a CCW is an accomplishment. Telling someone they can read the the original 2nd amendment, and understand it for themselves, is priceless. Reminding people of the intent of the founding fathers and showing the simplicity of the document can only benefit decisions at the poles. This to you seems like foolishness, but to a "simple minded" person like myself it has great meaning.

Anti-gun activists also love to steer people away from the original, and boast of their intellectual higher understanding. Never had a silver tongue or cared for wrangling words, but I know when enough is said.

Enjoy your intellectual debate.:)
 
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Last warning.

Ditch the liberal vs. conservative snark - or I will snip your silver tongue or use Alexander's solution to Gordian knot, if you are tongue tied.
 
skidder said:
...Steering one person away from a CCW is an accomplishment...
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You would consider disauding someone from getting an available CCW, and instead carry a gun illegally, risking the associated adverse consequences (arrest, legal expenses, a criminal record, etc.) an accomplishment? What a strange perspective.

skidder said:
...Telling someone they can read the the original 2nd amendment, and understand it for themselves, is priceless.....
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Of course, your view of things has nothing to do with the way things actually work in the real world. The opinions of courts affect the lives and property of real people in the real world. Your opinions on the law and the Constitution do not.

People need to understand how things actually work. Otherwise, they risk some very unhappy surprises.

skidder said:
..This to you seems like foolishness...
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Yes it does.
 
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