Caliber question: .45 and .50
- Thread starter Moloch
- Start date
Funny, I never thought to use round ball for hunting, sectional density must be bad with a .45 round ball weighing ~ 140 grains. How far did the ball penetrate?
Yeah got it two days ago but stock had some bad scratches and I did not like the two piece stock, the stock under the barrel was fixed with only two pins!
Send it back and ordered the same rifle ( but its more expensive) from Armi Sport in cal. 50 instead .45, quality seems to be better and its a one-piece stock. There is also a bunch of aftermarket pieces for it. I made a ramrod out of aluminium and it works very well, with a nice black finish it fits great under the barrel of my pistol. I destroyed the original wodden ramrod, two hits with the hammer and it cracked.:barf:
Many .45 ball hunters say that it will pass through both lungs if properly hit with a broadside shot. But there isn't as much room for error if the shot is off or not taken at full broadside, then there might not be an exit hole.
In many of our southern states, mature deer often run smaller in size than in the north, and the .45 caliber ball is probably more popular for deer hunting.
In many of our southern states, mature deer often run smaller in size than in the north, and the .45 caliber ball is probably more popular for deer hunting.
And the price is better than for my Lyman GP rifle. I believe the end price will be 465€ about. From other threads I learned that she is not exactly pc, but here in Slovenia noone will notice that. I am also gathering information on pc clothing and I guess I find some paterns at Track Of The Wolf.
jurij
I don't think there's any guarantee of exit wounds with round balls of the normal sizes commonly used for hunting. It depends largely on whether bone is hit, I think, splinters from which are pushed ahead of the ball and help penetrate the off side hide. I once shot a medium sized deer with a .570 patched round ball, 65 grains of FF, from my 1861 Springfield, at only 25 yards or so. The ball went between ribs on both sides of the animal and was caught just under the hide on the other side. When I skinned the deer, there was an area about the size of a dinner plate around the ball where it had pulled the hide away from the ribcage. The elasticity of the hide apparently acted like a trampoline on the ball and caught it. Had there been some sharp bone ahead of it, I imagine the hide would have been cut enough to allow penetration.
Larger powder charges, of course, increase the likelihood of complete penetration.
Steve
Larger powder charges, of course, increase the likelihood of complete penetration.
Steve
I just read a lot of horror stories here of people loosing their hands with hot powder loads, bad spain made barrels and so on. Now I am really scared to shoot my rifle when it arrives, I dont even want to shoot it anymore. 
:barf:
What powder load should I use to get some power but on the safe side? Its a percussion .50 Armi Sport Kentucky 33'' barrel and I'll use patched lead round balls only.
Should I use FFg or FFFg for .50 ball to get as much velocity out of it as possible? How much grain of FFg and FFFg? I heard people shooting regularly 80 or even 90 grains of FFG in their .50 cal, and that with heavy conical bullets in the 290 grains range.
I am confused.
:barf: What powder load should I use to get some power but on the safe side? Its a percussion .50 Armi Sport Kentucky 33'' barrel and I'll use patched lead round balls only.
Should I use FFg or FFFg for .50 ball to get as much velocity out of it as possible? How much grain of FFg and FFFg? I heard people shooting regularly 80 or even 90 grains of FFG in their .50 cal, and that with heavy conical bullets in the 290 grains range.
I am confused.
Moloch, once you start to shoot your new rifle, you will look back and laugh for being worried about shooting it! 
I don't know what you've been reading about, but it's certainly not something that happens everyday.
These guns are safe to shoot at least a maximum of 100 grains of ffg by volume. fffg burns cleaner and faster, so if using it, just reduce the volume by 10%. I have the a Pedersoli with the thinnest .50 caliber barrel (13/16th's of an inch), and I have shot 90 grains of Pyrodex P out of it with no problem at all. And Pyrodex P has more pressure than BP. You shouldn't worry so much about it.
A person who doesn't ram and seat their projectile all the way down might be able to put a slight bulge in the barrel, but exploding a barrel is pretty rare. People have tried to do it and they can't, even using 2 balls and double the powder.
I started my son shooting a .50 caliber sidelock at about 9 years old. We loaded 30 grains for shooting at 25 yards, and 40 grains for 50 yards. But usually the common starting load is about 45 - 50 grains. The less powder that you load, the less fouling and sometimes even the better accuracy. Because it has a longer 35 inch barrel, it will develop good velocity, and maybe even a little more fouling down in the breech because not enough of the patch lubrication will always reach down there.
When you want to shoot for more power, you increase the load by 5 grains each time while testing the accuracy. When the accuracy starts to get worse, you swab the barrel and dry patch it, and try it again for accuracy, and reduce the charge accordingly.
Some guns like more powder, some guns like less. It will take a little time to find the best loads.
So don't worry so much about the barrel exploding. The .50 caliber barrel develops less pressure than the smaller .45 bore because it's bigger.
60 - 65 grains is a moderate and very safe load that most people are very happy shooting .50 PRB's with, and I often shoot with only 50 grains of Pyrodex at 50 yards.
I don't know what you've been reading about, but it's certainly not something that happens everyday.
These guns are safe to shoot at least a maximum of 100 grains of ffg by volume. fffg burns cleaner and faster, so if using it, just reduce the volume by 10%. I have the a Pedersoli with the thinnest .50 caliber barrel (13/16th's of an inch), and I have shot 90 grains of Pyrodex P out of it with no problem at all. And Pyrodex P has more pressure than BP. You shouldn't worry so much about it.
A person who doesn't ram and seat their projectile all the way down might be able to put a slight bulge in the barrel, but exploding a barrel is pretty rare. People have tried to do it and they can't, even using 2 balls and double the powder.
I started my son shooting a .50 caliber sidelock at about 9 years old. We loaded 30 grains for shooting at 25 yards, and 40 grains for 50 yards. But usually the common starting load is about 45 - 50 grains. The less powder that you load, the less fouling and sometimes even the better accuracy. Because it has a longer 35 inch barrel, it will develop good velocity, and maybe even a little more fouling down in the breech because not enough of the patch lubrication will always reach down there.
When you want to shoot for more power, you increase the load by 5 grains each time while testing the accuracy. When the accuracy starts to get worse, you swab the barrel and dry patch it, and try it again for accuracy, and reduce the charge accordingly.
Some guns like more powder, some guns like less. It will take a little time to find the best loads.
So don't worry so much about the barrel exploding. The .50 caliber barrel develops less pressure than the smaller .45 bore because it's bigger.
60 - 65 grains is a moderate and very safe load that most people are very happy shooting .50 PRB's with, and I often shoot with only 50 grains of Pyrodex at 50 yards.
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I got that stuff from chuckhwaks.com, that text scares the hell out of every BP shooter for sure. Now I settled down a bit, but its still very scary stuff, that will make me a lot more careful shooting a muzzleloader next time.
I always run a cleaning patch through the barrel after each shot, its amazing how much fouling you can get with different types of powder, my favourite powder right now is from switzerland, its a clean FFg and it shoots extremely well out of my pistol, and it seems to be very powerful too.
Thanks so much for your help, when I get my Kentucky rifle I will load a max charge of 65 grains, but I wont use any conical bullets even not the light ones, they seem to increase the pressure dramatically!
I never heard barrel explode with a patched round ball, I guess that a barrel loaded with a 180 grain round ball hollow load is not as harmful or explosive as a load with a 295 grain conical hollow load.
Today at the range I was really dissapointed about my .45 BP kentucky pistol, I could not even hit the whole target at 25 yards with patched round balls, maybe its a bit far away for a 5'' BP pistol but at 10 yards I can hit the 9 and 10 of the target all day long.
However, I also discovered something really strange today. I loaded my pistol with 17 grains of very hot FFG and did some penetration tests because I always wanted to know how BP compares to centerfire ammo if it comes to ''soft(er) targets''.
I loaded it with 17 grains of hot FFG, the pistol made a huge fireball and kicked like . 357 mag +p.
I aimed at a 3-4'' thick hardwood balk and hit it broadside. I checked how far the bullet penetrated and I was amazed as I discovered that the bullet just dimpled the wood.It did not even scratch the wood, it just made small dent into it. Maybe a bad hit. I loaded the pistol with 19 grain of FFG and the recoil was suprisingly stiffer. Just dimpled the wood, penetration was less than 1''.
I excpected much more power, with that recoil, flames and hot powder load.
What a bad day.
And I could really hunt with a muzzleloeader rifle with patched round balls?
However, I also discovered something really strange today. I loaded my pistol with 17 grains of very hot FFG and did some penetration tests because I always wanted to know how BP compares to centerfire ammo if it comes to ''soft(er) targets''.
I loaded it with 17 grains of hot FFG, the pistol made a huge fireball and kicked like . 357 mag +p.
I aimed at a 3-4'' thick hardwood balk and hit it broadside. I checked how far the bullet penetrated and I was amazed as I discovered that the bullet just dimpled the wood.It did not even scratch the wood, it just made small dent into it. Maybe a bad hit. I loaded the pistol with 19 grain of FFG and the recoil was suprisingly stiffer. Just dimpled the wood, penetration was less than 1''.
I excpected much more power, with that recoil, flames and hot powder load.
What a bad day.
And I could really hunt with a muzzleloeader rifle with patched round balls?
Wood is quite hard to penetrate.
You need to use at least 30-35 grains of powder to begin to match or exceed the .38 special and approach being equivalent to the .44 special.
Even though your barrel is shorter than many revolvers and the bullet weighs several grains lighter (133 grains), it will penetrate wet paper, meat etc... when you use enough powder.
At 19 grains, your loads are only half way to being a reliable man stopper.
Check out this entire thread for more info.:
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=255957&highlight=penetration
You need to use at least 30-35 grains of powder to begin to match or exceed the .38 special and approach being equivalent to the .44 special.
Even though your barrel is shorter than many revolvers and the bullet weighs several grains lighter (133 grains), it will penetrate wet paper, meat etc... when you use enough powder.
At 19 grains, your loads are only half way to being a reliable man stopper.
Check out this entire thread for more info.:
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=255957&highlight=penetration